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*****

 

DATE:  June 8, 1974

LOCATION: Honolulu, HI USA

 

0802-AB Jack Here:  Good morning. Busy days and a lot of plans afoot.

 

I've been busy going through my wardrobe and making plans and reservations for my move to Southern California. At first I was a little surprised, but school is out now and I have made arrangements to transfer there in the fall.

 

Q:  (Unrecorded comment or question.)

A: Oh, no! School. I've been going to school here.

 

Q: Have we been going to school, too, Jack?

A: Yes.

 

Q: Have we graduated?

A: Not yet.

 

Q: (A question about the Hawaiian Missionary Society, an organization we helped to establish.)

 

A: Honestly, it stacks up this way, from my point of view: 

1. I am concerned that you rejected the UB organization
2. And then created your own. The implications to this are worrisome, but 
3. If you need those props and those additional tests, okay. 
4. I was gratified you asked Christie[1] for credentials. 
5. I see you eventually making another choice.

But the merits of the HMS are fine.

 

Q: (Re: local Urantia Book representatives)

 

A: I understand that. So far so good.

 

I look at this HMS as a compromise for you and a well-taken one, since your fellow mortals will swallow all that more readily than UB. 

 

Allow me to say here that I am pleased with your decisions to "missionary it" as it were. And many others feel the same as I, and will help all we can. It isn't going to be easy for you but decisions such as were made yesterday go a long way. 

 

Q: It could be worse.

A: Not if I have to push those dogs around to find a place to sit.

 

There is merit to Alan's bonds [family ties] as a means for self-support, allowing you time and freedom to teach and preach. I would hate to see you so involved in them that they distort their original objective. And WD's [Alan's Dad, a/k/a "Gramps"] involvement will be the first test of that.

 

Q: [Alan's mother has terminal cancer]

A: Yes. You'll see her. 

 

Q: We'll have to find jobs there.

 

A: Sources for income are all there. Don't worry about that. But don't allow yourselves to be swallowed up in the getting of it. If your motivations remain "pure" you'll do just fine.

 

Q: [Unknown question]

A: I'm not sure I understand your question.

 

Q: [Something related to Alan's sister and her husband]

 

A: Not too much so after a short period of time. They will allow you to live your lives. 

 

Q: [Something about a lecture bureau]

A: Providing everyone knows in front that you are going to speak "religiously."

 

Q.  [Re giving notice at work now.]

 

A.  You want me to comment? Well, unless you are going to teach him something, what do you accomplish by telling him anything, other than that you are moving to Southern California?

 

Q.  [Notation here that "the church is embodied in the home."]

A.  The decision is still his.

 

Q.  [Another unrecorded question]

 

A.  I always like the themes of "Today's Morality Against the Backdrop of Tomorrow." "Presenting Oneself Publicly for Personal Ministry." You have to make a few more stands with yourselves regarding "things." I.e., the thought that you would consider marrying two of the same sex "ain't gonna make it," etc. We should discuss some of these "issues" -- not all now, but as time goes by.

 

You will be confronted with myriad such on "the Dark Continent."

 

A good yardstick is "What bearing will these things have on the home life: (1) sexual freedoms; (2) drugs; (3) divorce; (4) social honesty - values. The western civilization as embodied in the United States (English-speaking world) is crumbling, and you are going into the middle of the chaos. It won't be easy. You can't hide from it in your trailer in the middle of nowhere. We won't allow that. It will follow you.

 

I don't object to your using your creativity to use many, many methods to accomplish your goals, but when using these methods, always think of the results, effects -- long-range views (tomorrow). Your issue with LRT regarding wine is an example. The problem was with her, not the others, but to a certain point it was as if she became the 'sacrificial lamb' -- dig? 

 

But others more advanced than you have been faced with the same problems. When you expose ignorance, you are always going to be "asking for it."

 

Generally, I like your overall plans. Your time in Southern California will be advantageous and you will learn a lot. Your plan to move about from that point is wise and good. You will spread a lot of good words. We have always encouraged your writing and still do. You will reach a lot of people. The timing is good and your day has come -- Believe it!

 

There are still a lot of fish in the sea for food. I would like to see you be able to be self-sufficient, in fact you can be. I don't think it would work for you two to have to solicit donations. If you ever have to, please talk to me about it first. Okay!!!

 

Your seraphim will be most noticeable to you once you are free of MATERIAL FETTERS. Watch for them. 

 

We are, basically, quite excited about your decisions and ventures. We want to help. But you have to be aware of us for us to function fully. The ultimate results of all this, of course, will bring you closer to your TA's.[2]

 

I want to speak to you again before you board the plane. Bye for now. 

 

In love,

Jack

*****

 

DATE:  October 1, 1974

LOCATION:  San Diego, CA, USA

(On Tower Bowl stationary)

 

0802-AB Jack here.

 

Just fine. And you, after your vacation? Proceed.

 

Where are your (illegible) "safe employment" with "personal ministry"? Do you have something up your sleeve?

 

(Illegible) yourselves to personal ministry is one thing. Employment of any kind is another. Granted one may (illegible)

 

Have you ever completely dedicated yourself to ministry? 

The greatest discovery is discovering your Father within. Perhaps you should re-read Michael's admonitions to the messengers.

 

No.

 

Yes.

 

Then simply go about your business. First decide (illegible). You have decided to do it that-a-way. You are walking two lanes. You wish me to guide you regarding the material aspects. That I cannot do.

 

Your "dedication" is half not whole. You have not counted the costs. Hence I suggest you find what is most compatible and give to the cause that which you can. If -- and I think this is where your heads are -- you are using these efforts to "set yourselves up" so to speak, so be it. If you will each "count the costs" etc. It is a trap, at least a delusion.

 

ANYONE who is totally dedicated can and will "do it." Go out and devote oneself to personal ministry unselfishly and be a messenger for Michael. Where is your faith, woman? In what? Do you not think you would be provided for? First, were the "early" messengers the only mortals who could thus perform? Do you think society and (illegible) have changed so much?

 

I repeat my question. What are your basic desires? Where does the trial / trailer / chatter, etc., end? Okay. Buy five years. Believe me, we can wait. Can you? Your concern tonight indicates to me that perhaps you are already feeling the pinch of time … and not doing your Father's will? Conflict? You simply haven't had the opportunity of handling "multitudes" well? Have you depended on God yet? For your emotions - material - you are losing me.

 

Let's take a relative sample of service. I am not berating your work for us. What I am doing is answering your apparent feelings of not doing enough. Reaching enough. How, where, when, and the typical concerns of eating/shelter. One human. One seed, under any conditions. All the way to mass evangelical outreach. Of (illegible). Refer to the phone then put yourselves in that position.

 

Yes!

 

I can't give you an answer as regards material work, jobs, etc. The reason is due to the mysteries of such. 

 

*****

 

DATE:  August 8, 1975

LOCATION:  San Diego, CA, USA

 

 

TEACHER: 0802-AB Jack here.

 

It has been a long time and a lot of experiences under your belts. I, of course, am always concerned with what you do with your experiences. 

 

Q: We got a dog. What do you think?

 

A: A dog? A good choice. He will be a good companion for you. What has happened with your intentions to illuminate the dark corners of the unknown? Has it been amply oppressive for you?

 

Q: [Unclear]

A: Well you had a lot of friends pulling for you. Still do. Ask around.

 

Q: Ask around the cosmos?

 

A: Anywhere. Depending on your uses of the uses of the funds, they are sometimes. What are your motivations today? To make a living, take your picks.

 

Q: It doesn't matter. You don't care?

 

A: No. Who does? To make funds to accomplish more idealistic goals is another matter. You want mobility. You want time without unrealistic stress. Well, your environs and society will dictate a great portion of what you can/cannot do. Trade is an established channel and always will be. It has far-reaching ramifications, as well as social intercourse. I am all in favor of it. You could travel worldwide and bring the truth to a lot of unlighted corners. Don't let your dog chew your UB's.

 

Q: How's Lucifer?

A: Still protesting his innocence.

Q: How are you?

 

A: The usual. But after a night of difficulties on the local streets, I wonder. I do not lose ultimate optimism, but I do concern myself with the immediate.

 

Q: Your survival, Jack?

A: Not at all. Yours!

 

Q: [Something about exhaustion]

 

A: Yes, but you have all the tools at your disposal. It interests me that you call on me only at those times you begin a new phase. This is not to say I carry any lack. You know, don't you, when a new phase is coming. Now, translate it to destiny and the forward evolution from plane to plane. This is, indeed, how it works.

 

As to your particular/material needs, as long as your motivations are non-personal, things will take care of themselves. As you have seen so often. I have little else to add.

 

Q: [Question about family ties]

A: Familial associations are always right and healthy. 

 

Q: [Question about Ms. S's sister]

 

A: I hardly got to know her. Sorry to say, she is where she belongs for now. For one thing, you won't be here long enough to have taken care of her long-term needs.

 

Q: I think we planted a seed or two.

A: It only takes one.

 

Q: [Unknown]

A: No big deal.

 

Q: Did you like Wilderness Pines?

A: Very much, but your location was not conducive to complete meditation. 

 

Q: [Reference back to travel plans]

 

A: I will help you get on the road as long as you don't forget that which I represent. It is a good thing that you desire. Bye.

 

Q: [A question about anxieties over this communication process.]

A: Then use your own good judgment and stop reinforcing this thing.

 

Q:  [Concern about the T/R ascribing Jack's messages to his own subconscious mind.]

A: Three mindal powers make a unified positive force. Bye for now.

 

*****

 

DATE:  January 24, 1976

LOCATION:  Las Vegas, Nevada

 

0802-AB Jack here. 

 

Hello folks. How are you today on this windy plateau in Las Vegas? 

 

Q: We're finishing up our sojourn here and about to hit the road again and we've checked in today to seek input. 

 

A: Why is it we only talk before each new move or endeavor your make? With your knowledge of the workings of your seraphic friends, you should have a pretty good idea of how you got here and the steps it takes to accomplish these things.

 

Q: We did all we could here, as "professional gamblers."

 

A: Personally, I wish you could have made a little on the side, but I know it was not a firm part of the plan. 

 

Let's get down to a few specifics, if we may, okay? Any questions first?

 

Q: [Question regarding "Gramps" who caravans with us.]

 

A: He doesn't understand and has only those habits of old to fall back on. That is something you can help with and which should evolve as your "trip" does.

 

1. You will run into some little misunderstanding with the Foundation, but when they analyze you and your work, all will be well and they will even throw their support your way. Count on this. Yes!

 

2. It is a provocative thing you do (caravan in RVs to "spread the gospel.") But perhaps it can be said you are among the first "missionaries" of the U.B. Try to set up some enclaves -- even one soul in each locality before moving on. The passing friends on the road should be taught to do the same when they get home, if you will have ample time with them.

 

3. Tell the folks you are "missionaries." Tell them you work when the need arises. This will, of course, bring up the matter of funds. When they offer, have Gramps deal with them. Perhaps he will see a need to give them a receipt. Talk this over with him and establish a plan. Don't openly solicit. People will offer if you have approached them properly. Also, feel free to discuss your writing with them. Bone up on your lessons.

 

Q: [Re: Dad/receipts/Foundation] 

 

A: Donations must be made to you personally. This is why you cannot openly solicit. You are going as independent missionaries.

 

4. When you must take jobs, take them with this full knowledge and understanding.

 

5. As long as you insist on going to bars (and indeed it is a way to meet folks), watch your intake and don't allow repeats of such as last night. If Gramps becomes a drunkard again, you will have a lot of "broken fences."

 

Q: [Re political debate]

 

A: Regarding your total efforts, you mortals still need miracles to convince you of plans that work. 

 

Have a good long family conference before you pull out and work these things out. You must believe me that people will offer you funds and goods. Know how to deal with such. Do not openly solicit. Do not tell Gramps of me and these writings. Tell no one. Be open and on the alert. You can answer that most basic need in all your fellows if you will but put yourselves in the path of their searching. You will find this quite different than your experiences in San Diego. Questions?

 

Q: [What to do re Holy Bible]

 

A: You are bringing a new revelation to them. Study the papers on revealed and evolutionary religion.

 

Q: Should we paraphrase or read direct from the UB?

 

A: Both. But you are trying to spread the U.B. Unless you have more questions, I must go for now.

 

*****

 

DATE:  November 7, 1978

LOCATION:  ABQ, NM, USA

[At Wellesley]

 

TEACHER: 0802-AB Jack here.

 

I can't imagine why you would choose an election night to want to talk to me. I'm not in politics! What makes you think I would cast a vote? [Smile]

 

How have you been? Yes, I know that is a specious question. I must find new ways to handle this experience with you -- your belated response to my inquiries is not promising.

 

Q: Was that a "anxious" question?"

A: No. A "specious" question.

Q: Alan [the contact personality] is having a hard time of it.

 

A: I know. Drink. Cynical. Anxious, and not at all assured. But responding, at last, to a lot of prompting! But the "net results" are what counts. Don't try to read and digest every sentence now. Wait until I pause. 

 

Q: This is by way of automatic handwriting and Alan's handwriting is terrible; we can't read the writing.

 

A: Let me go slower. So much time goes by between contacts, it is always as if we are starting fresh -- a new discipline each time, and I fear the subject digresses between each occurrence. I cannot count on him. … Okay, go ahead and work that one over. Then we will begin. 

 

Q: Are you for real? Could you explain?

A: Yes, I will. My validity has been attested to. Look around you.

 

Q: You refer to Jerry / Clara / Dawson?

 

A: I have those in mind. However, you will note the personalities in question. But we will not waste time on that subject. I have made every effort possible to contact you and prove my status to you. I know Alan states I can and should go to the typewriter if I want to contact -- that sort is not the way it will ever be. I have been instructed to use this source -- this source is a part of the "procedure" and no amount of entreaties will ever change that. On that statement, I must rest--

 

How do you like Albu-turkey?

 

Q: What good can come out of this?

 

A: Yes, I can explain "a little"-- we do not expect remarkable results from this kind of contact. What you must realize is that the "experience" is as much mine as yours. My "destiny" dictates a favorable "experience" as much as yours --

 

[Interruption. 

Telephone call from Alan's employer]

 

Q: Sorry 'bout that.

 

A: No problem. How do you like Albuquerque? My question is not full of implications. I am simply asking. You will do better in our communications if you will take most of it as "matter of fact."

 

Q: I think Alan would leave New Mexico sooner than I would.

 

A: Yes, he has a tendency to look across that fence all the time. If that could be projected to eternity, "cosmically," it would be more advantageous. You will soon see a better picture and reason for our "talking" but you must relax more and let "things" work themselves out.

 

You two have had quite a time of it -- since you arrived here. I hope you don't become embittered. I thought you had a good dog. My sympathies to you regarding his untimely death -- and it was in no way connected with anything "supernatural." He had a disease which, even if it were discovered earlier, could not have been corrected. He contacted it in your back yard last summer during the "spading" process -- and don't take any "trips" on that!!!!

 

Well, he didn't eat your U.B.'s and that was "a good dog" -- you will have all these instincts worked out on #1. I don't see any other resolution for all that on Urantia for you two during your short times left. And speaking of "short times left" Dorothy [Elms] has very, very little -- try to make it more pleasant for her. Okay?

 

Q: Are you calling us "short-timers," Jack?

 

A.  Yes -- I am, but don't make me count. You are both entering a new "stage" in your sojourns -- and I advise you to approach it accordingly. I am not saying your lives are soon to be terminated, but your cycles are changing -- you must grow with the Harvest!!!

 

I am happy you hold your U.B. every Friday -- but you must put forth more "overt" energy regarding it -- I don't want you to become "actors," but I do suggest you approach it a little more "socially." Okay?

 

Q: Will Alan and I be together in this new stage?

 

A: Your free wills will dictate that. My educated guess is "yes," of course. Your marriage is not "sanctioned" in Heaven, as you know, but two fools such as you had better not go looking elsewhere unless you want a lot of trouble -- more than you can handle. Your use as a U.B. couple cannot be downgraded by any entity known to Michael. 

 

Q: How is Michael? Have you seen him lately?

 

A: Daily. And you?

 

Look how long it has taken to get the subject open! Now, after total exhaustion, we should be commencing. Point made?

 

We will take our time this time. I will not rush in with heavy pronouncements as I have in the past. My supervisors have taught me that. I have been instructed that I have come very close on many an occasion to closing the door on all further communications with you. My apologies for that. I will be more careful in the future. You will know me.

 

My supervisor has instructed me to tell you the following:

 

1.  I am a secondary midwayer.
2.  I am not attached to the subject nor to any other mortal.
3.  I am allowed to contact as a result [bleep] of my anxiety to "repent" for an earlier propensity to "default" earlier --
4.  My contacting is the result of mildly favorable conditions on the part of the subject --more on that later.
5.  I have vowed to make recompense by helping where I can
6.  I can not interfere in your lives -- advise, direct or influence -- I must be as a "conversational" friend -- or I will be denied the pleasure -- that doesn't mean I cannot speak my mind, however.
7.  Alan is not, at this time, a Reserve Corps of Destiny. More on that later.
8.  No supernatural connotations must be attached to this phenomenon.
9.  My supervisor audits all communication from here on out until further notice.  Comprende?
10.  Word concerns, personal concerns and the growth of the U.B. are my mandates.

 

Q: Did you leave?

A: No. I m still here.

 

Q: [Unrecorded]

A: Yes, I have also.

 

Q: [Something about Jerry / Clara]

 

A: Yes. I was -- I was allowed the opportunity to communicate to her - to you via Jerry. Comprende? Our allowable range of influence encompasses such as that --

 

Q: How is it you can be in Hawaii then in New Mexico so quickly?

A: We use the "circuits" you read about. I don't have to leave the dinner table.

 

Q: [(Something about Dawson]

 

A: Yes, I know, he is a good source for getting messages across, and don't get involved with him regarding this. Let us handle those things. We are better judges than you. Let it be and allow us the opportunity to function without your inadvertently drying up the sources, as it were. We will continue to use him for many purposes in order to get New Mexico going.

 

Q: We've applied for Membership-at-Large, providing the Executive Committee approves us.

 

A: Unless they declare you A.A.

Q: I hope it's easier than the Credit Bureau.

 

A.  I heard all about that. And there is little I can do except discuss it with you. But, oh dear, what can I really say? Your financial struggles have been such a total part of our association together and I have always been at a loss, except to say "have faith" in yourselves and HIM. Give up and relax -- enjoy your lives more. Don't go extremist, no, but stop all the darn tension you build up and relax! Let more, such as this, flow in your lives. It is not as bad as it seems!!!!  

 

Okay. That is more than enough for now, unless you have a specific.

 

 Q: I can't think of any. Can we talk again soon?

 A.   I would hope so.

 

*****

 

DATE:  November 12, 1978

LOCATION:  ABQ, NM, USA

[At Wellesley]

 

0802-AB Jack Here: How are you today? A lot of activity this weekend. Have you enjoyed it? Did you want to ask me questions? 

 

Q: Yes, we wanted to refer to a previous session, okay? [Gone for transcripts]

 

0802-AB here.

 

Q:  [Unknown question]

A: Tell Jerry? I think s/he knows.

 

 Q.  [All instincts worked out on No. 1 regarding children] 

 

A.  You will have to feel the Spirit of Truth regarding that. Meditate over it so to feel comfortable with it rather than "take my word" for such "personal" decisions. Mostly it was … "is" my "opinion" and feelings on the matter, not a pronouncement.

 

Q: I know that.

 

A: The "energy" -- non-used -- that such leaves applicable must now be channeled. Do you have any thoughts about with what?

 

Q.  Yes, parental in the UB community.

 

A.  Go slow and easy. Those you have informed are going to "watch" you closely. But they are looking for leadership and most of us want to feel we made it possible for the leader to lead. Hope you got my message. Psychology is that -- we want a good leader but "resent" the leadership.

 

 The common man wants to believe that he was instrumental in making the favorable environment for the leader to lead him. That is my message, and why you must go slowly and gently. Cause-and-effect.

 

Q: Is your supervisor a primary midwayer?

A: Yes, in conjunction with another.

 

Q: Who? Can you say?

A: No. Not permitted.

 

Q: What about No. 3? [Referring to the earlier transcript]

A: The complete sentence is there, yes, but one too many "earliers."

 

Q: In reference to the Caligastia rebellion?

 

A: Well, yes, it was, but I did not -- I have felt some need for "repentance" as a result of those days. 

 

I have felt some anxiety for my mortal cousins and have been allowed to see if I can help others so that they need not have overmuch "wars" within themselves, which are the natural effects of the rebellion. I am told I am "over-reacting" but permission was granted.

 

There are midwayers who specialize in such. I have to some extent, but it is not my "specialty." I have been communicating on this world for some time, but you are my first so-called "common man."

 

Q: Your specialty is?

A: Learning to communicate. Hence? Communications.

 

Q: You say in #4, "mildly favorable, etc."  Any comment on that?

 

A: Not too much. Not at this time. As you know, we need a channel of a sort with which to operate. The energy supervisors and seraphim do not feel that in this case other energy sources be used. However, it is true that one sure result is that the subject is being "trained in the deep mind." Perhaps it could be used at some later date or necessity.

 

Q: Shall we set up a schedule of talk?

A: We can be adult about it.

 

Q: I'm 34 now.

 

A: "Still a kid," as RS would say. And speaking of them, I am glad you go there. They seldom indicate, but they are uplifted after each session. Be patient with them.

 

Q: We're "card carrying" [Urantia Book members-at-large] now.

 

A: I know. Write the ladies and let them know. As soon as possible. You can then acknowledge to the Brotherhood with time and day of your regular meetings. In time, send them a list of names, addresses and phone numbers which they will file. But wait until 1979 to do that. They will be contacting you soon.

 

If that is all, I will go…..

 

*****

 

DATE:  November 27, 1979

LOCATION:   ABQ, NM, USA

[At The Bent Tree]

 

0802-AB Jack here. Some time has gone by since we last talked. I hope you feel you have advanced since then. Your trip to Europe was a good education for you, but you could have done a little more to "spread the word." Do keep up your correspondence with those folk over there.

 

Do you have any plans for the future now? And if so, what are they? Can you conceive of yourselves being more aggressive with your work regarding the Book? Nothing, I suggest, in any way implies that you should do anything which would infringe on the copyrights.

 

Don't put yourself in the position of being too controversial, and don't encourage open confrontations. You may wish to back off a little with V.M. before you shut the doors where you might otherwise need them open.

 

Why don't you take a part-time job while you are getting "things" together? That way, like Karen, you won't have to make any "long-term" commitments.

 

You could easily work with Karen on a writing project or two with the remaining portion of your time. You may not feel that stuffing envelopes will be rewarding. These are just my thoughts and not "gospel." But a lot of your spare time should be spent reading the Book. You have reached the point where you could gain better understanding of it. Try it. You'll like it. 

 

More later.

 

*****

 

DATE:  November 28, 1979

LOCATION:  ABQ, NM, USA

[At The Bent Tree]

 

0802-AB Jack here.

 

Fact or fiction?

 

What does it matter, if you receive some benefits from it? The "mystery" could be solved long about Mansion World #1, but I suspect that you will have resolved it before then … unless you experience an "untimely" death. 

 

So you don't know what you want to do. Why don't you make a list of all the things which seem "unworthy" to you, or which you find distasteful. After analyzing the list, perhaps you could then begin a more positive list of those things you feel you would want to do. If it is a "service" oriented job you want, I suggest you simply go to each of those organizations, folder in hand, and talk to them. Who knows what might happen? But, as I told you yesterday, I feel you might like a part-time job better, providing you can decide on what you would want to write about. Decisions, decisions, decisions. I can't help you make those. I can only talk about them.

 

More later.

 

*****

 

DATE:  December 14, 1979

LOCATION: ABQ, NM, USA

[At The Bent Tree]

 

0802-AB Jack Here.

 

Yes, we were trying to get through to you last night, and you guessed correctly. By the time you awaken and begin to think about it, it becomes quite "garbled." Your "picturization" of death was atrocious. Your "picturization" regarding the Urantia Foundation, writing, utilizing your "monies," etc., were fairly unblemished. 

 

When you translate such words as "power" to your own use, you must be careful. But it is a well-taken point. If indeed you feel that you have the ability to accomplish a "job," "work," or enterprise which will "set you aside" and bring forth those sums of money which you wish to "endow" to the Foundation, it is certainly well within your and Karen's ability. That is the "power" of which the UB speaks. It IS a form of service, and if you maintain the course you are on, you will certainly reach those levels of personal power. Time is the factor here.

 

In order to accomplish anything, you must start somewhere. Getting a job is, and should be, your first priority. Your course of action with getting out of debt was wise. Your spending ALL your sums on personal comforts was NOT. You still have a large debt to face yet, unless you find and use a means to overcome it. Continue to meditate on that.

 

You can accomplish a lot by not needing so terribly much money to "get by on" right now until YOU get your "acts together." (I suggest you go back to Roberts this afternoon when they aren't so busy. You may be pleasantly surprised. And as you well know, this IS something you can do.)

 

Even if there is a "crash" as you put it, people will continue to want entertainment through the written word -- especially under those circumstances. You should set aside a goodly portion of Saturdays to help Karen with the novel she is working on now. Simply start by reading it yourself, jotting down your comments and "editing." Then proceed from there. I will help, if you wish. I don't necessarily like "commercial" things, but YOU MUST START SOMEWHERE. 

 

AND YOU MUST NOT BE DISCOURAGED OR LACK AGGRESSIVITY WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING IT PUBLISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

In answer to your question regarding last night, as I said, I was there. You have reached a point where it is easier and more comfortable to recognize me than translate communications to another. Go right ahead and do so, but keep in the back of your head the reality that more than I am involved in ANY communications with you -- or anyone for that matter.

 

Needless to say, I have enjoyed your "Xmas" letter to your brothers and sisters. I had fun helping you with it. (I want to make it clear that I am, and will continue to use the plural YOU … NOT the singular.)

 

I also feel that somewhere in that letter is the seed for future writing. Try to think about that as time progresses. Yes, you will receive some VERY positive responses to it. You will receive some negatives, but please don't allow those to discourage, or make you angry. You will KNOW who you have to help. 

 

Your little "Jack" piece is TRASH. THROW IT AWAY. I cannot allow you to do it. That is not how you become "famous" and "powerful."

 

Yes, it is true. Your sense of "well-being" is why you feel NO financial pressures, and I am not laying any on you. But keep things in perspective.

 

More later.

 

*****

 

DATE:  June 30, 1983 (1)

LOCATION:  ABQ NM USA

 

0802-AB Jack Here

 

Tom, this is a message for you. You are doing very well under some seemingly strange and unexplainable circumstances. Why do you worry about those? All will unfold for you if you will continue to pray and seek God's will for you.

 

You are not in a vice between two opposing opinions or people (here and in Phoenix). You are following your inner leadings correctly by "disowning the past." Your problems with doing it are the results of your fears. Now simply disconnect the line, if you will. Whether you are comfortable with it or not, you are right where we put you when you made your important decisions to (1) become sane; and (2) seek Alan's help. It worked -- didn't it?

 

If you will but learn to share more with these people who love you and who are helping to fulfil your destiny for you, you will become much happier and wiser regarding life, God's plans, the workings of Michael's creations and your personal role in all this.

 

Karen and Alan are "veterans" of this type of communication and have experience in how to use it and live with it. Allow them to share.

 

Tom! It has been decreed that you are, indeed, candidate material! You have the right to reject our plans.

 

More later

Jack

 

*****

 

DATE:  June 30, 1983 (2)

LOCATION:   ABQ NM USA

 

0802-AB Jack here.

 

Hello, Karen. A long time no see. We are fine and happy to see the progress you are making.

 

Thank you for allowing us to get through and use you to bring this little meeting together. We must do our work, perforce, when the time is right for all parties.

 

We have utilized the auspices of (1) the social architects; (2) your (all three) T.A.'s; (3) your (all three) seraphim; (4) the power directors, and (5) other helpers. 

 

Allow me to offer the following:

 

Alan is a sensitive receiver and somewhat reticent to allow himself to be used for fear of being hurt and bring about pain in others. We, naturally, will do all we can to circumvent a lot of that.

 

1. Discretion must be used. No public announcements of any kind! Okay? We will guide you, if you are but willing followers where and how we do have work ahead of us.

 

2. Due to the nature of the relationship between Alan and Tom, you will be required, from time to time, to act as interpreter and mentor. Accept the role selflessly. We desire not to complicate this "touchy" threesome.

 

3. You don't all have to be present for us to communicate, but be sure that the messages are disseminated.

 

Nice to have you back, Karen. We have missed talking with you. Perhaps, as you do God's will, we will talk a great deal more from now on. Everyone pray and accept.

 

More later

Jack

 

*****

 

DATE:  June 30, 1983 (3)

LOCATION:  ABQ NM USA

 

0802-AB Jack Here

 

Hello. How are you three tonight? It is a pleasure to be with you. We have a lot to discuss with each other. When the channel settles down, all will be well.

 

The affairs of man can be complicated. Boy, what it took to get you three together! We won't worry about any of that now.

 

Do you have questions? One at a time, please, and ladies first.

 

Karen:  I had no questions, just --

Jack:  Comments?

Karen:  -- glad to be with Jack again. We've all done quite well, don't you think?

 

Jack:  Yes, a decent start. Tom?

Tom:  Tom has reservations and concerns about his reservations, his fears.

 

Jack:  Get into the streams of life. Outside of yourself is a world of mysteries to be discovered and solved. Go for them now. 

 

Please keep the channel open for awhile, okay?

 

Tom:  In the individual communication, you said I was a candidate. A candidate for what? Governor?

 

Jack:  Yes. "Candidate." Candidate for receivership and carrying the message and for our use!

 

Karen:  What about that recent "communication" - four pages or so using the same format as when we talk with "Jack." Were you involved or was that mere creative writing?

 

Jack:  Yes. I have no objection to your using it out of context. From time to time we are enabled to make contact with your Thought Adjusters who approve of certain messages when it is beneficial to your spiritual insight and growth. You should always be alert to such promptings -- both of you -- and utilize those moments to the utmost. If you don't understand, please stop me!

 

Tom:  Why was I allowed to survive all those close calls? In cars, motorcycles? How is it that I wasn't killed or that I didn't kill somebody else?

 

Jack:  Yes, Tom. Your Thought Adjuster, first and foremost. Not I! But, your Thought Adjuster and seraphim make the determination first. We are utilized only with consent of your Thought Adjuster, seraphim and our supervisor stationed on the planet. When you were recipient of your Thought Adjuster, your "destiny" was ordained. All-- Many efforts were made on your behalf and still are [being made]. Your willingness to survive had a lot to do with it, too. Reluctantly.

 

Supreme Thought Adjusters make a tremendous matter. Virgin Thought Adjusters not to such an extent. There is a formula I wish to share with you … mathematical, of course!

 

 X = willingness )

 Y = type of Thought Adjuster/seraphim  ) = P

 Z = evolving supreme )

 

XYZ = P1 P2 P3 P4 !

 

P1 = potential

 P2 = potential supreme

 P3 = potential fusion

 P4 = all usages we can put you to on your way from here to Paradise. We cannot overlook anyone (entity) who has any combination of this formula and you fit most of it.

 

Tom:  Sorry!

Karen:  I must ask, what do you think of the premise of my potboiler?

 

Jack:  Yes, Karen. Make some bucks and feed the poor. Any seed planted for God is a seed for progress. Keep with it. Don't become discouraged. It's important you guys learn to finish what you start. 

 

[No more questions]

 

Yes. We will talk later. You all have a lot to digest. More later.

 

*****

 

DATE:  July 1, 1983

LOCATION: ABQ, NM, USA

 

0802-AB Jack Here

 

Hello! How are you? This is a new pleasure to be speaking to you, Tom, in a rather private setting. What is on your mind?

 

Tom:   Compulsion. How do I deal with the situation with Ralph? How

do I overcome my conflict and deal with my compulsions?

 

JACK: You have had good advice to date. Your problems with alcohol and drugs go far beyond any problems you may be having with a personality. However, (l) place him in proper perspective; (2) find other ways to think about — new and other people to concern yourself with (3) new life. (4) You can deal with compulsive thinking and emotions through the love of Michael and striving for his mind to replace the old mind of

Tom. (5) Sometimes you mortals get so "hung up" on a person you forget to follow the quest of the ages.

 

There is not too much more to say except "keep the faith" and I can help you to go down new highways, greater than any of the old you've experienced to date with anyone!

 

Tom:  How does Jack work in my life, or how is he involved in it? What can he do for me?

 

JACK:  A very good question. I would start by saying that I cannot be with you three all the times when not contacting. Here is how it works: Most of your feelings of the presence of something (us) is that of your seraphim; primarily a "feminine presence." When you need me and my help you ask and I will come as soon as possible. If I cannot, I am authorized to send another midwayer. There are those times however when I am with you "unasked." You will simply get to know my personality and feel me with you more.

 

Now, you ask, "What can I do?" Well, more than you can imagine. Ask. I'll answer.

Tom:  Can Jack make me a contact personality?

 

JACK:  No, not I. Only you and your Thought Adjuster. Why do you want to do this?

 

Tom: I just want to do it. 

JACK: Ask God.

 

Tom:  Will Alan pass his contacting gift over to me when he kicks the bucket?

 

JACK: I will have to get permission to answer that one.

 

Tom:  I'd like to know which psychic circle I'm on.

JACK: Four.

 

Tom:  Does my stubbornness and my character defects interfere with the work of Jack? Or interfere with your work? And the other celestial hosts' work?

 

JACK: Alan's "things" interfere with this. Your "things" interfere with your Thought adjuster and next in order of importance, your seraphim.

 

Tom: When will I get to the third level?

 

JACK: You get more of your "issues" such as we talked about a few moments ago taken care of , and you'll blast right through. Why else do you think we work so hard for all of this to happen while you are still in Alan's life?

 

Tom:  Do you think I am a potato farmer? Or a defect?

 

JACK: Rescued. It is highly unusual for one as young as you to be at these gates, hence, we take advantage. But there are issues between you and your Thought Adjuster which dictate this happening. You made a decision. Alan is a contact personality. You two are in the same environment. What would you do under the circumstances?

 

I have been given permission to answer your question if you still wish.

 

Tom:  I still wish to know if Alan's gift will be transferred over to me when he kicks off.

 

JACK: A qualified "yes."

Tom:  What is the qualifier?

 

JACK: You, by continuing your decisions in favor of truth, beauty and goodness. Remember we live in a very material environment. The spirit is the way through. 

 

Tom:  Do I ask too many questions?

JACK: No, not too many questions.

 

Tom: Are my motives pure?

JACK: Your motives don't concern me one iota.

 

Tom:  What is Jack going to be using me for or the other beings out there?

JACK: Bridging the material and spiritual gulfs on Urantia.

 

Tom:  How do I bridge the gaps?

 

JACK: This is an avenue. Follow our way and you walk easy, but we midwayers have other duties to perform also. We are historical recorders.

 

Tom:  Do you record us?

 

JACK: Yes. It goes into the archives as part of the spiritual economy of the universe. Many, many students from other worlds, universes, etc., visit and observe these happenings. We, I, help make that possible as well as their speaking with you and others, too.

 

Tom: Am I in the right field? Am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing? Am I supposed to be an electronic whiz kid?

 

JACK: Oh, boy. A very good start, I'd say. Yes. Don't go flying into unchartered waters for awhile yet, okay?

 

Tom:  Okay. Was my past intended to be like it was with my parents and my brothers and sisters? Was it all supposed to be all screwed up like it was?

 

JACK: No. Please never overlook free will, ignorance, selfishness, greed, lust, etc. Look to the above for the rest of your answers.

 

Now, Alan, while Tom is away don't get overtired but I have someone here who wants to speak with you both in a moment. Take a very short break and come right back.

 

Jack here. Relax a moment.

 

ONE IN AUTHORITY:  Yes, I'm here. You can call me by name but that is not important. My message is the important thing at this time.

 

I am one in authority. I give Jack his permission to deal with you and code his messages. There are some matters which perforce require telling the future when we are involved in such as this. Please treat these issues when they come up with care. Also, do not become disgruntled when future information is denied.

 

Your task with all of this is simple, not simplistic. You, as Jack does, and others of his kind, will help to bridge the gaps from time to eternity. Sometimes you will be challenged to go out onto the firing line as it were, but we will be with you at all times of possible danger.

 

Midwayers, with the help of power directors, can avert physical catastrophes. Your contact personality will not be called to Mansonia for several years yet so you can see a lot can yet be said and done.

 

Thank you. I will talk from time to time with you. Now I return you to "Jack."

 

Tom:  Is your real name Jack?

JACK: No, of course not, dummy.

 

Tom: What do I call you?

JACK: Call me Jack.

 

Tom:  Probably because we won't be able to pronounce your real name anyway.

JACK: Right. We are going to close out now unless there is a good one.

 

Tom:  One more question. Do you feel the same things that we feel when we have our spiritual highs or our good feelings inside?

 

JACK: Yes. It is love. I am very close in progression with you mortals. "Born" one small step above. Had Lucifer not rebelled and Adam defaulted you would see me. I am right here. You may yet see me before you die.

 

Good-night.

Jack

 

*****

 

DATE:  July 2, 1983 The next morning

LOCATION: ABQ, NM, USA

 

0802-AB Jack here.

 

Good morning, Alan. I won't take but a short while. I want to thank you for your time last night but also caution you in becoming too tired.

 

The channel is working pretty well for being such a long time away and your mental changes are less severe. Good.

 

Tom's acceptance decisions the other night are a perfect example of following the voice and urge of the Thought Adjuster even under stress, confusion, fear, anger and despair. Don't any of you forget that lesson and example.

 

Alan: [asks a question regarding developing dependencies between "he and me" and so forth in that vein.]

 

JACK: You both do a good job of nurturing each other without sick dependencies so don't worry about that. Continue to care and watch over each other's welfare and all will be well.

 

Alan:  Any need for separate domiciles?

 

JACK: No changes are in store for some time, so learn more co-operation and patience with each other and you will both grow rapidly as individuals. We are proud of you. Your seraphic guardians have asked me to send words of love, compassion and joy to you both this a.m. Walk in the light and grace of God today. We will be with you. Bye for now.

 

*****

 

DATE: July 3, 1983

LOCATION:  Albuquerque, NM, USA

 

0802-AB Jack here.

 

Okay. 

 

Q: Hello. I want to say a few things here and my question was do you know what goes on in our minds or what we think about?

 

JACK: Oh, yes, I know about the matters you think and wonder about. Your good friends had some good input for you. Those issues you will want to work out soon enough. A full life - well-balanced and productive - is the ticket.

 

Tomorrow is U.B. I don't suggest you involve Edith in this. She is not a candidate at her age.

 

[Good friends Murray and Jerry just left, after playing poker and having dinner]

 

First question.

 

Tom: How do we start to bridge the gaps between time and eternity, as we talked about yesterday? Where do we begin?

 

JACK: You started tonight by being friendly, warm, unassuming and free to be yourselves. This builds peoples' Confidence in you slowly but surely. Then when they see your spiritual maturity at work, the "bridge is set." You will know when that happens and can gently speak in Michael's name. Understand that you have a grasp and knowledge of Him that not too many have.

 

Tom: I'd like to ask if you can help us to see and understand our character defects and also if we can see how our defects can hurt or affect other people and what can we do to overcome or work out our defects.

 

JACK: Yes, but they should be taken one at a time in order of pressing issue. For instance, "lust." you both have it. Lust can involve you both and has. With unprogressive types the involvement of which retards your growth if not actually setting you back and taking time from other important matters. Then it leads to personal

dishonesty. You can only overcome lust by earnestly wanting and working for higher spiritual values in your life. It is not wise to try to ignore it, suppress it or condemn yourself for it.

 

Tom:  Can our defects become less and less and less and not remain or can they be suppressed or lessened in any way?

 

JACK: By degrees they will evaporate. Remember, you will eventually fuse with your Thought Adjuster. Some can work for you, some will wait until the Mansion Worlds, but those you will have learned to deal with. Comprende?

 

Tom:  How do we deal with potato farmers? Do we ignore them? or do we not f**k around with them? or just — can we help them in any way?

 

JACK: Tolerance is a mark of spiritual maturity. Some need your help. Others you can do nothing about. The trick is to learn to know the difference.

 

Tom: Does it bother you if I cuss? Swear?

JACK: No. I recognize origin.

 

Tom:  I'd like to know about those kids down at the YBCA. Are there any of them kids that are possibly going to learn anything from us or go with us through our sojourns or not? Can they comprehend the spiritual life? The new way of life? Or are we just wasting our time down there?

 

JACK: As you know, God is no respecter of man. You are planting seeds. Today. Under the circumstances that is a lot. You must use experiences such as those to help "learn and know the difference." Comprende?

 

Alan:  Are the instructions you gave at the very beginning of our conversation — could be used in this particular experience. The instructions are "You started tonight by being friendly, warm, unassuming and free to be yourselves. This builds peoples' confidence in you slowly but surely. Then when they see your spiritual maturity at work, the "bridge is set." You will know when that happens and can gently speak in Michael's name. Understand that you have a grasp and knowledge of Him that not too many have."

 

JACK: Well, I'm glad to see Alan came to life. Of course. Simple, isn't it.

 

Tom: I'd like to know why I was chosen to be going through this experience instead of say, for instance, my twin brother or my other brothers or somebody else. What is special— What is so different about me? Or so special about me? What do I have that they don't?

 

JACK: Remember the formula. However, I'm happy you mentioned your twin brother again. I have a few comments. Here's a perfect example of duplicity of creation which for all it's "Look-alikes," is vastly different in personality expression. Now, when you better understand personality expression you will grow in knowledge of all your "brothers". You (refer to formula again) have (l) a Supreme Adjuster and now the opportunity to so learn and experience culture and civilization such as he has not and probably will not. That can eventuate in your Thought Adjuster's becoming self-acting (which it stands hovering ready to do). It is the result again of seraphic action in your lives. You were receptive. There is much, much more. Take what you are receiving and discontinue making too many comparisons unless you need to solve a certain problem or question.

 

Alan:  Jack, I think we need — if you could illuminate us a bit about this business of culture and civilization because I think you're saying that Tom is now — which means today — whatever's happening around him today — he is soaking up, experiencing and learning culture and civilization. Doing that can eventuate in his Thought Adjuster's becoming self-acting. Did you— (l) Is that right? (2) Could you explain that a little.

 

JACK: Yes, it is right. "Potato farmers" know not culture or a darn thing about civilization, its history, happenings and lessons. The reference is all-encompassing because "culture" includes social usages, mores, and how to eat at the dinner table and maintain intelligent conversation without drooling. Comprende?

 

Tom: Do you think that the saint should know about this? Should — that St. Saneto [an associate] should have anything to do with it or is he too far gone?

 

JACK: Please, spare us all. Good night.

 

*****

 

DATE:  July 3, 1983

LOCATION: ABQ, NM, USA

[Private message]

 

0802-AB Jack Here

 

This first is primarily a message to Karen, which you may take to her tonight.

 

I might suggest that you arrange a once-per-week session where you all get together and share "input" responses to the previous messages. Three heads are better than two, etc. Do this at Tom's house! Yes, here.

 

Karen, they had some "non overt" type contact today and I desire you question them about this so that you can and will be organized and on top of it. I am going to discuss a lot of this, some starting this evening, with them.

 

Now your health is an issue, too. Please stop smoking and drinking and keep better hours. You cannot do everything, as you are underweight.

 

Bye for now. 

 

*****

 

DATE: July 3, 1983 (2)

LOCATION: ABQ NM USA

 

0802-AB Jack here

 

Good morning Alan. I hope you're getting enough rest. I'm going to refuse for a while when it gets too late. Take it easy today and tomorrow. Talk with me as much as you want, not late at night, but rest!

 

You are both doing well. Last night's visit with your sponsors was very welcome and they got a new perspective of you both. Good.

 

Alan: Jack, last night when our sponsors were here we started talking about real estate investments and making money and things like that and that's what I asked.

 

JACK: Yes, let's do make a few rather definite plans — strategies — starting early they can be well developed, refined and ready for when the time is right. Also contingency plans (Always open for revision).

 

1. Have unqualified willingness for active involvement on both parties' side.

2. Form a Limited Partnership Agreement first.

3. Then purchase your first house after thoroughly assessing cost and repairs.

4. Watch market; sell after 6 months to 1 year.

5. Purchase second house; live in the first two or three and make decisions after that.

6. With profits from first sale, form your corporation, which covers all other activities such as Tom's furniture shops because the nature of your activities will be a good tax set-up for all that. Remember your free will decisions ignite or retard actions!

 

It may take three years but by then you could have security, shops, living conditions to your individual needs and liking. Yes, it is a certain commitment but it will work. This is a rough outline of what can be done, always open to improvement. Bye for now.

 

*****

 

Tom: Is all this that Alan and I are going through, is this all in preparation for the coming of Michael or the Melchizedeks?

 

JACK: Oh, boy, I was waiting for that one. I went ahead "smarty-pants" and discussed your coming question with my boss. Here's a bit of what was shared with me to share with you now. However, first, if you were to know exactly all the future happenings pertaining to this you might go bananas like "the saint" [the aforementioned associate who experienced a form of personality disintegration], hence you will be given bits as we go along!

 

Let's think today in terms of Melchizedek's arrival on Urantia, yes. And you who seriously study, work, progress and believe with total faith and loving hearts will be the ones to greet him and study with him - and with us - to commence the inauguration of another age. Preparations are being made. These things we believe. However, the universal broadcasts have not yet officially announced his pending departure from Salvington. Okay so far?

 

Alan: At this point I, Alan, have to stop for a minute and state that a lot of this was flooding through to us when we were at the spa today and Tom and I were batting back and forth a lot of things which were mechanics and so forth, so we asked Jack if these things that we were going through while we were at the spa, if they had reality or not and he said, "Yes!"

 

JACK: You, again, were both RECEIVING. (An example of my (our) coming unasked and communicating with you, okay?)

 

Now is a good time to start setting up a basic coding, indexing system. (Example "Human Associations" -- a subject I will be talking about --

 

Tom:  -- could be coded HAI, etc. okay?

 

JACK: You're getting it!

 

Tom: HAI stands for Human Associations I.

 

JACK: 2. Yes. In order to do a lot of things, you do need some bucks. You and I can get those bucks rolling in and, as you perceived, Tom, employ and help a lot of people doing it.

 

3. Two things to do: (l) set up codes; (2) prepare for first purchase. Code, yes. Begin with what you have. Always … and go from there. First things first.

 

Tom: Does all of this have anything to do with computer systems and data banks, etc?

 

JACK: Oh, yes, indeed. You got the message and communications.

 

4. As we talk, break down subjects by subject classifications for basic coding entry, etc.

 

Alan: Can you or will you enter "through the back door" into the computer?

 

JACK: I wouldn't "enter" except in planetary emergency and on the mandate of my superior! Yes, I can do this with the help of my friends, the power directors.

 

Tom: Are you going to help us to find this house? Are you going to lead us to our first purchase?

 

JACK: To a certain extent, of course, but I wish to digress for a moment. As we talk and as these things become complicated, I want you to remember that the issue is more important than the personalities. However, I am also concerned with your health, sanity and welfare. In time, when a certain amount of the novelty wears off, you will feel a certain pressure about doing this. Those are the times to keep your eyes open and your spirits good. Don't fall to suspecting one another and all those negatives. Be mature as possible and go easy with each other, okay?

 

Tom: I was just remarking that things will conspire to going to the point where all hell breaks loose and then we'll break through it right at the last moment and we'll be on a new level and at that point right before we break through we'll be right at each other's throats.

 

JACK: Yes. None of this would ever work with you guys drunk, stoned or nutso.

Tom/Alan: Anything else to say, Jack? We're ready to call it a day.

 

JACK: Be prepared for a lesson on H.A.I when we next talk. Bye for now.

Tom: H.A.I is Human Associations I.

 

*****

 

DATE: July 6, 1983 (1)

LOCATION: ABQ NM USA

[Late afternoon session w/ Tom]

 

Tom: Hi, Jack. Busy evening, huh?

 

0802-AB, Jack here.

 

Tom: Hi, Jack. Hello? I'm sure you've heard the dissertation of the last hour.

JACK: Oh, yes, indeed.

Tom: What is your opinion? How do you feel?

 

JACK: Well, I'm always a little saddened when these problems come up. I think Alan used the word "slip." It's an emotional slip; a momentary lack of faith, I suppose, would be the gentlest way for me to state it at this time.

 

Tom: Do you think it's on both of our parts?

 

JACK: Well, I think in your Alcoholics Anonymous program you have a statement that says, "We're not marriage counselors." Now, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. It always — in these situations where there are two people involved — both parties are at fault. Both parties are involved. Both parties are this, that and so forth. The scale is always tipped in favor of one person then the other person. It seldom is ever totally balanced.

 

You know you-- On your dollar bills, your monetary systems, your bills and in your courts, there is the lady with the scales? The Scales of Justice is what she represents? Well, if you can think in terms of those scales — always swinging, tipping back and forth — in the human relationship these scales seldom ever remain balanced at all times.

 

Tom: Will they ever be balanced? Or close?

 

JACK: They will be balanced in time. I don't think that you can anticipate it being such for too great a period of time on your planet as it is today. One of the problems (and there is validity to what Alan says -- you verified that, if I heard your conversations correctly -- and I'm speaking now with permission from both of your seraphic guardians), one of the most difficult and tragic situations on your planet is this inability of the mortal to demonstrate and receive love. So you're both "at fault." It's an evolutionary process that you're both going through.  You both recognize it, I believe.

 

Tom: Is this part of our Ph.D?

JACK: Oh, sure, you can count this one up.

 

You know, there's nothing wrong with taking a good hard look at these problems. The fact that you both demonstrate sufficient courage and trust to be able to put yourselves out there to discuss these things as openly as you do today, speaks very well for you. As long as you don't sit in judgment on the other person's problem.

 

Tom: Would you please answer Alan's question?

 

JACK: Well, there is some validity to it. We have been slightly remiss in taking care of this aspect of, I think you recognized it when you said, "Yes, but will it also be necessary for Karen when she's here?" Not one of you can be overlooked in this case, in a situation like this. Again, we look for balance. 

 

In many respects, since we are dealing with a sensitive one, sometimes we'll have to opt for the Sensitive. We'll have to tip the scales a little bit; we'll have to put our toes on the scales and tip them occasionally. I hate to say that, but it's true. I'm not sure it's anything we're going to want to have to emphasize, re-emphasize or necessarily even make such a demonstration to the Sensitive in a manner that we could be accused of patronizing but there is an edge of consideration there.

 

Now, Tom and Karen, you're both going to have to be aware that what we've got to do is have this Sensitive as unconcerned with the procedures as he possibly can be. The more self-concern he demonstrates regarding the procedures, regarding this entire issue and everybody's place in it, or not in it, or the degrees of it, etc., the more problems we're going to have with the channel, with keeping the channel open and keeping it effective.

 

Now, we have to, from time to time, tip the scales a little bit. His Thought Adjuster is making this possible. His Thought Adjuster will not allow anything to interfere with the physical mechanics of his brain at this point and, believe me, when you begin to understand better the electrochemical procedures that take place when this channel is open and in use, the position that his Thought Adjuster is taking in regards to his position residing within his brain, the stands, the position that his seraphim must take, et cetera, you would see-- If we could send you a photograph of this, you would see instantly the potential danger he is in at this very moment.

 

Tom: Do you think that will answer his question?

 

JACK: Well.... (long pause) I've hesitated here for a moment to not disturb the channel. I have been assured that his guardian seraphim is going to minister to him. (Long pause) When he has had sufficient experience with this, he will lose a great deal of his self-consciousness. When he reaches that point, you are going to see a tremendous change in him and in these entire proceedings.

 

Right now it's my opinion that a great deal of — there is truth in what he said, Tom, but also there was a lot of — he was seeking for compensation. He's been under a great deal of stress. He cannot in these early stages help but to feel and experience a certain amount of stress until he becomes unconcerned about the proceedings.

 

Tom: How does he do that? Just by practice?

 

JACK: Practice. Practice, practice, practice. So a lot of these experiences, messages, tapes or whatever are occurring here. They're all valuable because they're giving the channel experience. Be very careful about downgrading them in front of him.

 

Tom: Could you answer his question about the Project? He wants to know: What is the Project? Am I right in what I say?

 

JACK: Yes, you are right in what you say. I'm going to qualify one little portion of your statement, but before I do that, let me tell you that this is a prime example of his — the necessity for his reaching a point of being totally unconcerned with the proceedings. He took it upon himself today to feel responsible for the loss of the information. That's what you were looking at.

 

Tom: I see.

 

JACK: Now, the one little variation, qualification on your statement regarding "the Project" is [that] Machiventa Melchizedek will be coming to this planet to do more than open up the channels [circuits]. It is a voluntary manifestation on his part to help to bring this planet back into, not only the fold when Lucifer's rebellion is adjudicated, but to help involve the planet, as quickly as possible, to its natural, what would be normal evolutionary state in its progression to light and life, which directly or indirectly makes the planet, creates the stage, for the return of Michael.

 

Tom: That is "the Project"?

 

JACK: That is the Project. This entire Project, which will start with lessons in Human Associations I is, guess what? Do you have a guess?

 

Tom: I'm blank.

JACK: The brotherhood of man.

 

*****

 

DATE:  July 6, 1983 (2)

LOCATION: ABQ NM USA

8:30 p.m. session w/ Tom and Karen

Contact Personality: Alan

 

JACK: I apologize for the delay. I'd like to talk to Karen for a few minutes.

Karen: I'm listening.

Tom: You want me to leave?

Karen: (Indicates 'no')

 

JACK: From time to time I find it necessary to delve into personal situations. I'd like to ask how your work on your book is coming along.

 

Karen: (Long pause) I'd say it was 75% completed.

 

JACK: Very good. I would urge you to get as much of it done as quickly as you can. Finish it!

 

I have in mind a project for you in terms of your creative talents. You are witness to a story that if properly handled would be of merit. That's the story of Tom and Alan, and if you were an investigative reporter and changed the names and the circumstances to protect the innocent, you might have yourself a blockbuster.

 

Karen: The timing certainly would be right.

 

JACK: That's why I wanted to bring this out the very first session so that you could, from a secondary observational point —

 

Karen: Take notes.

JACK:  — take notes.

Karen: Thank you.

 

JACK: Whenever you have an opportunity, you might want to do your background material information. I would suggest that you write it in the form of a long short story or a story that you can determine for yourself as to content, submit it to your larger magazines and watch it sell.

 

Now, that's taking the most material, perhaps professional crafts point of view regarding it. There are a lot of morals to the issue, a lot of morals to the story; a great deal of philosophies involved. I would suggest that you ask for some of the tapes that are here so that you can listen to them (inaudible). Some of them are a little more personal. I think that by the time that you reach that state in your investigation, after Alan has heard this communication, he might be less reticent to know. The only reason I feel that you probably haven't heard the tapes to this date is not a matter of just time, but his reticence.

 

If you handle this discreetly it will help to build a great deal of confidence and trust in this touchy 3-some. (Long pause) I'm ready for questions now.

 

Karen: I listened to the earlier tape having to do with "the Project" and I need to ask. You make reference to other people's involvement, and eventually throughout the world and the nation or the universe also being involved in "the Project." This lady in Texas that has written a letter to the Circles, who advertises herself as being, shall we say, a contact personality, is she, in fact, part of the program and might we write to her, and…?

 

JACK: Yes, she is part of the program. I suggest that you write to her.

Karen: Okay.

 

JACK: If you continue to encounter too much reticence on Alan's part, just go ahead and write the letter.

 

Karen: Okay. We'll write the letter. We'll deal with that. And you say there are others who may be aware already. That lady, putting herself out on front street the way she did, I would anticipate that she will be getting input such as the letter that we intend to write. Do you predict that?

 

JACK: There will come a time when you will be able to write such a letter, such a form of communication.

 

Karen: I also remember in reviewing the last tape, the discourse with Alan and with Tom that I was going to have somehow a role to play in bringing some of these other personalities together. Is this letter the manner in which you're talking?

 

JACK: Yes. Very much like a disinterested third party, would be the initial approach. Interested but disinterested. Not a part of the immediate, well— you don't live under the roof.

 

Karen: I see. Yes. I've been working already, I want you to know. I mean, I'm sure you know. And finally, for this phase of questioning, I want to be considered a graduate of Human Associations I. Might I ask where I'm failing?

 

JACK: (Long pause) I ask myself many times questions such as these: When will I, Jack, reach a point when I do not have to spend so much of my time being the diplomat, mending broken bridges, covering or cleaning up the mud spilled from potholes? Such as that. We'll reach a point where we don't have to spend too much time soothing all of our ruffled feelings.

 

Human Associations course Number 1 — Diplomacy.

 

In the U.B. it says, "You simply must have tact and tolerance." It was tactless on Tom's part to say what he did in the manner in which he did, yet if we were to look beyond the tactless statement, abrupt manner of presentation, two things would be learned: (1) how unimportant, how unnecessary our egos are, and (2) the better way of saying the same thing. There isn't anyone in this room, there isn't anybody under this roof that can't learn more in terms of lesson number one: tact and tolerance. And tolerance is the ability to stand the assaults that occur without having hurt feelings, or without being ruffled. So at this point I'd have to say that it's a good thing it came up, because we're having an opportunity to review some very basic fundamental things.

 

I expect that when the Sensitive hears the tape, and I'm sure he will, [he] will be urged by his Thought Adjuster and seraphim to immediately find examples for himself of — tact and tolerance. Eliminate the ego is probably the first step (inaudible). Now, this is outside my lesson plan. So even we midwayers have to learn adaptability. Lesson Number 2 -adaptability.

 

Now before I go on, or before we get involved in anything else, I would like to answer some of your general questions. The channel finally is beginning to operate properly. This is a good opportunity for everyone to relax, feel a little personal or interpersonal, ask some questions, general questions if you wish; whatever; and we'll have a — give and take. We'll lighten up a little bit. If we can't enjoy the session, there's no fun in having it.

 

Karen: I'm smiling.

 

Tom: Do you think it's a good idea for me and Alan to take my motorcycle on our vacation?

 

JACK: Why not?

Tom: I was thinking maybe it could be a disaster or something.

JACK: You're free to burden yourselves to any degree you wish.

 

Karen: While they're on vacation -- and their vacation in and of itself is none of my business what they do but -- I was wondering in terms of the channel, what do you think about them taking a true holiday and leaving their paper and pencil at home? Of course, they don't use paper and pencil any more.

 

JACK: Ah!!! Times have changed. (Laughter) I'm selfish. I like to have this channel working.

 

Karen: Yes, I can understand that.

JACK: And, well, I think the channel likes to have the channel working.

Karen: Yes.

 

JACK: And all my friends like to have the channel working as best they can, so perhaps some repetition could be —

 

Karen:  — without distraction.... You bet.

 

JACK: I think we're all anticipating a spiritual communion.

Karen: Indeed.

 

JACK: I suggested that they go on vacation so that they could learn, get to know each other on a new level, and part of this is learning how to deal with this between the two of them.

 

Karen: I should say. What does Athena think of my book?

Tom:  Who's Athena?

Karen: Athena is a celestial artisan.

 

JACK: (Checking) She prompted me to encourage you to get it finished. She's of the opinion that it has merit in today's market. She's naturally concerned with the utilization of your craft.

 

Karen: Yes.

 

JACK: The more you write the better you get. It's like the channel. The more the channel works, the better the channel gets. The more I can learn myself to communicate by these methods, the better I get. The more the observers learn and can take back with them, the more everyone advances, the more easy the work of the seraphim becomes and the closer they get, you all get, to ultimate oneness with your Thought Adjusters. So all these things eventuate.

 

It takes discipline. All of these things take a great amount of discipline, establishment of priorities, elimination of the trifles in your lives, the trivia of living, uh—

 

Karen: The extra burdens.

 

JACK: -- the extra burdens, which can be eliminated. This is one of the biggest problems which people have when they make money. Now here I am interfering in you people's lives. I'm interfering.

 

Karen: We welcome you here, Jack. You're not interfering.

 

JACK: I'm interfering in your careers. I'm interfering and suggesting and doing all these things regarding methods and means and manners by which you people can become independently wealthy.

 

Karen: You're absolutely right. You're a terrible interference.

Tom: Really.

 

JACK: But I have a purpose and I am not interfering and suggesting and working with you to do things that are inimical to your well-being or to the wishes and urgings of your Thought Adjuster.

 

Karen: I'm sure.

 

JACK: You people, but, [back to] Human Associations — efforts that it takes to do these things will be a burden if your motivations are wrong.

 

Karen: Of course.

 

JACK: If you become greedy, if you become self-seeking, if you become covetous, you will destroy yourselves and every­thing that is trying to be done. Now if you overburden yourselves with things as a result of the monies you receive, then you have defeated the purpose of my interfering with your lives to help you to become independently wealthy, and you become prisoners again.

 

Karen: 10-4.

 

JACK: And if you're going to become prisoners again, you might just as well stay right where you are and trudge on, day after day after day after day, burdened down, tired, exhausted, worn out,...

 

Karen: Are you saying that this is our current state?

 

JACK: You just all - every one of you - came out. Just now are beginning to see some light.

 

Karen: You're right.

JACK: You're just now beginning to find the crack—

Karen: It really was a dry and dreary season for awhile.

 

JACK: But you see? You see, I can stimulate your imaginations and I can encourage you into projects that I can encourage you to do things and if they don't work: 'Oh, why did Jack to that? Why did he tell me that?' Where taking the long-range point of view, taking the light-hearted point of view, taking the non-burdened point of view, you are experiencing and perfecting your crafts. Your crafts at making money, crafts at becoming financially independent.

 

Karen: True.

 

JACK: Your crafts — the things that you're doing, the things that I try to help you to do.

 

Karen: The facts of life.

 

JACK: Absolutely. Detach. Treat them lightly but treat them with a great deal of prayer.

 

Karen: Conscientious application.

 

JACK: Jesus came to lighten our burdens, not add to them. I hope I got that thought across.

 

Karen: I believe so. I feel better.

 

JACK: Now what happens? Human Associations. If you start to put yourself into a prison and get yourselves tied up and tied down because your money is buying you all these things, now you have to take care of them. Then what happens to your Human Associations? 'I'd better be careful; they might steal my money. I'd better be careful; I've got to go to the bank. I'd better be careful; I've got to get more insurance to cover all of these things.' You're trapped.

 

Karen: More burglar alarms.

 

JACK: You're trapped. Trapped. So all of your energies and all of your time, all of your thoughts, suddenly become diverted from the potential usage of that money to the most fundamental, rudimentary mundane standardized all-American mediocre approach to having bucks.

 

Karen: If that's the case, I don't want bucks. Mediocrity is boring.

 

JACK: It's interesting that no one has asked me yet, why is Jack asking us to become financially independent?

 

Karen: To have our computer. So that we can travel.

JACK: To support the cause.

Karen: Feed the poor.

JACK: And you cannot do that if you're in jail.

Karen: Or poverty-stricken.

 

JACK: Exactly. They're both equally bad. When Jesus said, whatever your hands find to do, do that to your utmost, and do it in my name -- Human Associations — the ability as a human to go with Jesus.

 

Tom:  How do we start this? How do we know what is going to be the beginning of our financial independence? Or how do we get off? Will we just know? Will it just come to us?

 

JACK: Maybe by listening to this tape.

 

Tom: Yeah? You aren't going to give us any exact details or anything?

 

JACK: Of course. I can't sit here and talk about these things and not have something up my sleeve.

 

Karen: Tom, I think you're a seeker of signs.

Tom: (Laughter) Am I Jack?

JACK: Yeah.

Tom: Is that bad or good?

Karen: That's human.

 

JACK: When you (inaudible) you will realize that I'm just one shade away (inaudible).

 

Mr. T: Will my impatience prevent the Project? Of can it retard it?

JACK: Your greed could destroy it.

Mr. T: What about my impatience?

 

JACK: When we bump into greed we always find impatience. They go hand in hand. They are compatible bed partners. You find impatience, you're going to find greed; you find greed, you're going to find impatience. Think about that.

 

Tom: I want it now. I want more. Makes sense.

 

Why do you talk so slow? Does it take time for you to transmit or translate?

 

JACK: It's mechanics, yes.

Karen: I would have thought that it would have something to do with your censor.

JACK: That's part of it.

Mr. T: A lack of experience?

JACK: No.

 

Karen: And that we are a dense system here in the flesh and that our time/space framework is not like yours. Perhaps to you you're not speaking slowly.

 

JACK: I-- (pause) I'd like to send you a photograph so I could just show you.

 

Here's the brain, through which we operate. Here's your seraphim. And over here, [is where] his Thought Adjuster has gone. Now, I receive messages from his Thought Adjuster through his seraphim to — primarily it comes through the surrounding (inaudible). And over here sits a vast array of planetary communications, constant input of information from my immediate superiors who are coding and censoring all of these communications, ready at an instant to classify — all of this is happening and all of these things are being filtered through, (inaudible) so I'm literally talking to, receiving, sorting countless input here.

 

Now, I take this... send what I am to say... through the brain. As soon as I enter, with the help of the power directors, as soon as I enter, we have to — the power directors start to change, imprint, manipulate, stimulate those portions of the brain, electrochemical censors, so that it will transmit through and out in as close a form of language that you will understand.

 

The delay starts here.

 

Karen: That was an incredible description of what happens.

 

JACK: Now, the ultimate, the final and constant — Remember, the Thought Adjuster — in an instant, ... pre-known, pre-understood, pre-conceived, pre-analyzed, pre-determined -- is ready to act in an instant before I would even know if anything that was occurring was amiss.

 

Sometimes you wonder why I run into delays; sometimes you wonder why there are things that aren't coming through at a determination that you, in your prejudices, are pre-conceived to be receiving. You get what you get.

 

Karen: We'll take it.

Tom: When we get it. (Laughter)

 

JACK: Questions?

Tom: Do you ever get angry at us?

 

JACK: Yes.

Tom: When do you get angry at us?

 

JACK: Oh, I'll always let you know.

Tom: Yeah? How do you let us know? Do you cause conflict?

 

JACK: I like to make you think.

Tom:  Yeah.

 

Karen: I understand our Tom here has blasted through into the third psychic circle.

 

JACK: We all celebrated.

 

Karen: I should say!

Tom: We had a "pah-tay."

 

Karen: A party! It is a momentous day.

JACK: It was a very, very, very busy time.

 

Karen: Fourth of July, too. Fireworks.

 

JACK: Thrilling for everybody. We knew something was afoot because we saw all the seraphim coming and going, coming and going, coming and going, observing, checking, and of course we knew then that they were in the process of volunteering.

 

Karen: I was very impressed that he had the courage-- or the naivete, I'm not sure which -- to ask what level he was on.

 

JACK: That is impressive, isn't it?

Karen: It really is. I still am afraid to ask.

JACK: You're on the third.

 

Karen: Thank you. I suspected as much but I was afraid I might still be on the seventh. (Laughter)

 

Tom: Karen, do you know what your seraphim's name is?

Karen: No.

Tom: Why don't you ask?

Karen: Can I know the name of my seraphim? (Long pause)

JACK: Yes.

Karen: What is it? (Long pause) Please.

 

JACK: Nelonia.

Karen: Nelonio?

Tom: Nelonia. Right? Spell it.

Karen: Spell it.

 

JACK: N-E-L-0-N-I-A.

Karen: Nelonia.

JACK: Nelonia.

Karen: Nelonia.

 

JACK: You are familiar with one by the name of Solonia?

Karen: Yes.

Tom: Who's Solonia?

Karen: The 'Voice in the Garden'. 

JACK: And yours is Elonia.

 

Tom: Is Alan's similar to that too? (Inaudible)

JACK: You'll find that there is a similarity.

Tom: But you won't tell us unless he asks?

JACK: Not unless he asks.

 

Karen: Jack, the "ia" — Urantia, Satania, Edentia, Nelonia — "ia" is obviously one of the sounds in the universal language that we probably won't learn until we get to the third Mansion World.

 

JACK: You might be learning it right now.

Karen: I was wondering. "ia" might indicate an attitude?

JACK: "ia" (sounds like "yeah")

Karen: Yeah.

 

Tom: What type of an attitude?

 

JACK: Ministry... harmony ... harmonious... harmony... universal harmony... harmony of the brotherhood of man... harmony of love... harmony of (inaudible)

 

Tom: Sure isn't even close to "Jack" is it? (Laughter)

Karen: It's probably "Jackia."

 

Tom: Is it "Jackia?" (Laughter)

Karen: Speaking of Jackia, Jack. Jacks... Jacques Weiss. How is he?

 

JACK: I would have to find out.

Karen: Oh. At your leisure.

 

JACK: I think it's time for us to stop for a moment. Perhaps you would like to review the tape.

 

[END of SESSION]

 

*****

 

DATE: Wednesday, July 13, 1983

LOCATION: ABQ NM USA

T/R: Alan

TEACHER:  MIDWAYER JACK

 

0802-AB JACK Here:

 

A friendly fireside chat, a friendly chitchat, a friendly sharing of knowledge is what we're doing. Sharing of information. From this process of sharing information, a lot of the pressure of — even though I am a shade away, "a veil away," a shade away, it's not a big spiritual -- I'm not that far removed. I'm not anywhere near as spiritual as your Seraphim, spiritually advanced, so it's not one of those things. I just happen to be in a position where I have a certain amount of knowledge and a certain amount of knowledge is given to me to pass on to you, for which you should be extremely grateful.

 

So. To that extent you have been "chosen" — and I know Alan hates the word. And it's a word that should be taken under advisement.

 

So we're sharing knowledge. From the knowledge and from the sharing, the spiritual progress develops. It's a cause-and-effect situation. Each one of you will grow spiritually only in the manner and to the degree that you deal with the knowledge that we share. Do you understand?

 

Karen: We are truly socializing our beliefs.

JACK: That's right.

Karen: And the more we learn how to do it amongst ourselves and feel comfortable with it, the easier it will be for us to attract other people into it, a sharing situation — just an expansion of this and there will grow the brotherhood.

 

JACK: Human Associations I.

Karen: Human Associations I — Diplomacy.

JACK: Sharing all Knowledge. How many times have you all in a social situation-- Tom? How many times have you encountered situations where you — "What do I talk about? What shall I talk about?"

 

Tom:  A hundred million.

 

JACK: "How do I best approach this person?" "Oh, yes, Emily Post, I remember someone told me that what I should do is ask that person about themselves. What kind of books do you like to read?" or "What kind of music do you enjoy?" This is a technique of conversation. There's little difference between that and sharing knowledge. A lot of people are embarrassed to share knowledge. True knowledge. A lot of people don't know the difference. A lot of people think trivia is knowledge. A lot of people think that—

 

Karen: Facts and figures?

JACK: Facts and figures.

Tom: What is knowledge, Jack?

 

JACK: What we're discussing. True knowledge is an ever expanding, ever—growing reality. It's true, knowledge starts with a premise and grows from there.

 

Karen: It's the fifth adjutant mind spirit, which leads into wisdom and worship.

 

JACK: That is correct. There is no— (And by the way, Tom, you spoke incorrectly the other day when you made the comment that we don't have to study the adjutant mind spirits because they are no longer here — we no longer need them. The impression was that you were shucking them. No, that's not true. They diminish. Diminish is not erasure. They diminish in influence as you grow spiritually. You grow spiritually as a result of wisdom, the last, seventh and last adjutant mind spirit. Now, when you feel that you are all-wise, then I will gladly hand you a diploma in dismissal of seven adjutant mind spirits.)

 

Karen: Excuse me, but I thought that worship was the seventh.

JACK: Excuse me. Perhaps I misspoke.

Karen: They are running neck and neck.

JACK: 6th and 7th. Worship eventuates in wisdom.

Karen: He insists. That must be the way it is.

 

JACK: Okay? So knowledge is the forerunner of wisdom. Knowledge is the forerunner of worship. Knowledge is the forerunner of using your mind to ask questions.

 

Karen: Share your inner life....

 

JACK: To stimulate spiritual growth in other people, to plant your seeds. We're not talking about chess and we're not talking about poker and we're not talking about hair cutting and things like that. Those are facts. I'm talking about the sharing of knowledge.

 

Tom: Give us an example.

 

JACK: I just did. So the productive, positive productive inter-facing, interacting, sharing of knowledge is all a part of Human Associations. It's the upper half. It's the ideal. It's the....

 

Karen: Fruits of the Divine Spirit in action.

 

JACK: And again Rodan speaks of ideals. Your ideals should be sufficiently high enough, should be strong enough and so on and so forth. Philosophy is knowledge.

 

The Urantia Book — it's a problem — it's difficult because the Urantia Book says specifically that you on the planet earth have yet to evolve a sufficient metaphysics to bridge the gap between your knowledge and your morontia insight, your spiritual insight, your cosmic insight, your cosmic wisdom. So. The reason for this is — and the Urantia Book says this again — the reason for this is because there are so few real thinkers on the planet.

 

Our — and of course the historical deprivations from the defaults — mankind, your civilization, you people sitting here right now tonight, have been retarded. You have inherited this retardation but you have also — up to this point, compounded the retardation [in that] you have refused, on your own, up to now, on your own, to do your own bridging, to develop your own standard/depth of philosophy, to bridge that gap to morontia. To morontia. You are not ready to evolve into the morontia life until such time as you have developed a sufficient philosophy that is morontia-ized.

 

So no matter how spiritual you may think you are, no matter how your ego would wish you to go from here to, say, the 4th or 5th or 6th Mansion World, until you do this, you're going to land right smack dab on number one.

 

Karen: I need to go to 1. I have no problem with that.

JACK: That's where those deficiencies are made up. Now, I am here to help you to develop this and so, through your Human Associations course, Human Associations I, you can start to develop this art of sharing knowledge.

 

When you reach a point where you're not so hung up and not so involved in your own personal trivia and your personal life trivias, then you will be able to communicate — really communicate with your fellow man. When you can do that, you are spreading and establishing the brotherhood of man.

 

[End of lesson.]

 

*****

 

DATE:  July 20, 1983, Wednesday evening

LOCATION: Albuquerque, NM, USA

T/R: Alan

TEACHER: MORONTIA COMPANION ("DOC")

 

Alan: -- our guest from the seventh Mansion World. Why don't I just go ahead and let him talk with you.

 

Karen: Great.

Tom: Sounds good to me.

 

DOC: Good evening, Karen. Good evening, Tom. You may just call me "Doc" if you wish. I think that I have run out of humility; I don't know how to follow the introductions that I have already received. How are you this evening?

 

Karen:  Fine, thank you.

 

DOC: It's nice to have you here. I've looked forward to this visit for several days now. Tom, how are you?

 

Tom:  Fine.

Doc: Very good. Well, do you have any questions?

 

Karen: I do. I have a number of questions. They are pre-programmed questions as a result of our HA course that we take with Jack. Unfortunately, I didn't prepare to ask the questions of you. I'm delighted to meet you, of course, but I wasn't prepared to ask questions. I did enjoy the commentary, though, about how you call our position "solemn" when we deal with people who have not yet made the decision, as I understood it, as it was relayed to me, I found that very gracious. Very humbling. Thank you for that compliment.

 

Tom: Is there anything you'd like to say before the questions start?

 

DOC: Well, perhaps it would be well for me to give my own little introduction here so that there is no question in Karen's mind as to from whence I hail and what my specific jobs are. Number one, I am a Morontia Companion and a teacher. My primary residence is the seventh mansion world and I do a great deal of my teaching and my companion work on the seventh mansion world however I do go to other mansion worlds when the necessity arises. 

 

I do have teacher-students that work under my tutelage on the first mansion world and other areas such as that. I have been granted special permission to come through this channel and to visit this planet. This is my very first visit to a material planet, to a nativity planet as such and I can't begin to tell you the things that I've learned. I understand that both Tom and Alan told you of my conversation with them the other night when I said that this is the very first time in my long, long, long experience in ever working with anybody who has not made the decision. This is the reference to which you just made. Say hello to them. 

 

This is indeed a solemn responsibility. I marvel at your courage on this planet. This dense material environment. Sometimes I jokingly say to Jack when we're having our little briefings, I jokingly say, "Well, is my shield of armor in good order? I am about to commence," and here you are, unseeing, unknowing, believers in this jungle and I find it fascinating. This is an experience that I will carry with me for the rest of my eternity. I hope, I pray that there will be at my disposal proper channels and methods and means of communication for me to share this knowledge with my fellow companions on the mansion worlds. I am eternally grateful for this opportunity. If there is anything I can do to help, please do not hesitate to ask. Do you understand?

 

Tom: Yes.

Karen: Yes, I think I follow that.

DOC:  Are there any questions please?

Tom: Karen is the one with the questions.

Karen: Well, if you don't mind, I'll touch on the subjects that I —

DOC: Please.

 

Karen: All right. Here's a question that I asked myself today: — I'm not sure it's phrased right. Maybe you can read between the lines. Jack sometimes refers to reading our minds; whether he does or not, I don't know. But the question is — How do I get over the belief that often I know how a person should behave? How do I get over the feeling that — How do I get over the need to help direct other people's lives'. Or is that something I should get over?

 

DOC:  When you begin to experience for yourself the need for Christ to direct your life, then you will know how to translate this into your question. When you can turn your life over to Jesus Christ, over to your TA, then you will know how to give this same freedom to your fellow man. I have no other way to tell you. Now, there are a lot of little tricks, secrets and keys to unlock these storehouses of information that will help. As difficult as the acknowledgement of the words might be: ego ... compulsions to direct … compulsions to look good … compulsions to be in charge. All of these things are compensatory for a feeling of inadequacy, for lack of inner self-esteem. This is basic, fundamental stuff we talk about. 

 

The mind of Christ. If you would take on the mind of Christ -- because obviously your mind is not sufficient at this time to handle this problem, hence you would not be asking the question, so -- and this is not a negative. This is a positive, and I am responding to your question in the most positive manner I could. If there is a problem and you recognize the problem, then you are saying, I am not capable; I do not have the mind to make these decisions, to make these differentiations, to solve these problems. Therefore I ask for the mind of Christ to take over. And it is done. You do believe don't you?

 

Karen: Yes, I do believe.

DOC: Very good. Next question.

 

Karen: It is not very astute to ignore the adjutant mind spirit one, the spirit of instinct, which is the self-preservation instinct, yet we mortals continue to do that. When, if ever, ought we look to their background? As does the Supreme Being look to our background? Does the question make any sense?

 

DOC:  I think that I understand your question to this extent— now, correct me if I'm wrong, If I haven't grasped the full impact of your statement, or your question -- What you're asking in effect is: Do I dare peek behind the curtain?

 

Karen: No. No, excuse me, I don't think you understood my question.

 

DOC:  I understand your question to this extent: do— should I or should I not look at the history of the people involved?

 

Karen: Should I not take into consideration their retardations, their racial traits, their—

 

DOC:  Exactly. Peek behind the curtain.

 

Karen: So I should look, give the whole scope, understanding then why people behave they do, knowing they can't help the way they behave? Even if it interferes with our independent self-preservation instinct?

 

DOC: Your independent self-preservation instinct, when it is liberated by the spirit, cannot in any way be retarded or contained or imprisoned by the ignorance or retardation of another human being, or a group of human beings.

 

Karen: No, it can't. It really can't. It's just something that we mindally experience.

 

DOC:  If you want to be involved in that, yes, but with the blink of an eye you can transcend it; with insight, with cosmic insight you can transcend it. Yes. The answer to your question is yes. In order to understand your fellow man, you have to have all the facts at your disposal that you possibly can. You have to look at everything; look under every bush, every rock, every tree, behind every curtain, under every bed, in every closet, everywhere. Wherever it is necessary to go to discover your fellow man. 

 

Now, you're not doing this to pass judgment on him; you're not doing this, as they say in AA, to take his inventory. You're doing it for understanding. God chooses and judges your motivations here, your intent.

 

Karen: Well, I'm glad that we may do that, because I do do that.

 

Doc: God judges your intent. We don't search out the gray crevices of a person's soul or heart in order to blackmail him.

 

Karen: No, we don't.

 

Doc: In order to hold ourselves superior to them. That isn't why we do that. We do that so that we may gain insight into their needs. That's how we learn to love them.

 

Karen: And be companionable.

 

DOC: How do I know what your needs are if I haven't looked at you? How do I know what your needs are, Tom, if I haven't looked at you? How do I know what Alan's needs are if I don't look at him? Therefore how do I know what is the best thing for me to say? What is the best thing for me to share with you this evening, if I haven't looked? Can you answer the question?

 

Tom: Not I.

DOC: The question is answered, isn't it?

Karen: It's a rhetorical question.

DOC: It's a rhetorical question.

 

Tom: What's a rhetorical question?

Karen: It doesn't require an answer.

DOC: It's an attention-getter. Yes.

 

Karen: I'm sorry. I don't have any more prepared questions. I had thought of several in the shower but by the time I got dry, I had forgotten them.

 

DOC: Tom, do you have any questions?

 

Tom: Not particularly, no. I was wondering if you had anything you want to talk to us about? Human Associations?

 

Karen: Sharing of knowledge or diplomacy? And philosophy, too.

 

DOC: I had asked myself earlier if this wouldn't be a good time this evening for me to talk about this business about being born again because it certainly has a lot to do with Human Associations. It certainly has a lot to do with philosophy and with spirituality, religious growth, spiritual growth, understanding -- all of these things -- and at the same time, the sharing of knowledge. And then I— the more I thought about it, the more I felt that, yes, indeed, that is a good idea but I don't know if I should make this presentation or if I should have a friend of mine make it... this presentation this evening. I decided on the latter, that I would have my friend make this presentation. If you would like to — for me to share a fellow sojourner, I will, who has kindly consented to discuss this business of being born again, born of the spirit. Would you be interested in this conversation?

 

Karen: I'd like that.

Tom: Very much.

 

[Long pause]

 

VOICE: I apologize for the delay. [Another long pause] Gratefully we acknowledge the opportunity to make contact with you. [Pause]

 

Tom: Who are you?

 

VOICE: There seems to be some minor difficulty with the channel. [Pause] I have been advised that when we deal with these situations, with a channel like this, if we come in with too much power, we have to either reduce the flow of energy or we have to increase the flow of energy in the channel. I have been utilized before on this planet in this capacity but I am not at liberty to say when, with whom or where. I extend greetings and I have the great honor of carrying the banner of Michael. It is with a great deal of love that I enter your environment and also a great deal of gratitude that I am able to impart whatever knowledge that I may have regarding the subject that you seem to want to discuss this evening. 

 

I am a Mighty Messenger. My classification, my credentials, are best spoken for, you can read about me in your revelation. Before I start are there any questions you would like to ask me?

 

Tom: Not I.

Karen: No, I have no questions.

 

MESSENGER: Welcome, Karen, Tom.

Tom: If we think of one as we go along, is it okay to interrupt you, or...?

 

MESSENGER: Yes. I have no objection to that. We seem to have the channel under control now. There shouldn't be any difficulty. I would like to start by asking you a few questions.

 

Karen: Good.

 

MESSENGER: Would you like to volunteer and give me your conception of what it means when we use the term rebirth, born of the spirit?

 

Karen: My conception of what it means to you?

MESSENGER: To you.

 

Karen: To me it means giving my life to God, trusting to Him my care and keeping. Growing in cosmic insight, being aware of God being active in my life and hoping for it in my fellows --working for it, as well, if possible. That's what being reborn means to me.

 

Tom: To me it means that the cosmic — that you are achieving a cosmic mind and that all things old are become new. All of the old ideas and the bullshit that was the old person is all totally wiped out if you are born of the spirit; that's my conception of it. That the mind of Christ has taken over, or is dominating, or is at least trying if that is the will of the person, for the mind of — or the cosmic mind to dominate.

 

MESSENGER: If we could put your two conceptions together and make one package, we would be close to the truth. Embodied in that statement each one of your individual attitudes and conceptions is the essence of everything that I would say tonight. I can't emphasize strongly enough, if you could think in terms of a metamorphosis of a caterpillar becoming the moth. 

 

Now frequently — it's my understanding and I have had the opportunity to observe this on your planet — this process of rebirth gets misconstrued and gets misunderstood and people literally go about changing their identities. I know that my friend, I believe he has introduced himself as "Doc" to you, has discussed this with you in terms of mental health and things like this. It would be exceedingly awkward for this channel, for Alan, to take on the personalities of the people that came through him. There's absolutely no way that he could impart my presence and not take on certain characteristics, as colored and as materially influenced would be as they are, still he takes this on, but it is happening under a very controlled circumstance, situation, a controlled set of conditions. 

 

Now if he were to be reborn of the spirit and not be in a controlled environment or not have the good mental capacity or have followed the good directions of his Thought Adjuster, he could very easily go through a process of changing identities, new identities, changing names, things like these, which of course happens on the mansion world. But when our TA tries to tell us that we are going to go through this metamorphosis and that this metamorphosis will start right here, can start right here on the planet, we have a tendency sometimes to want to become something that we're not. 

 

Now, what I'm getting at is that we don't allow ourselves to rush in where angels fear to tread. If indeed we have given our lives over to the care of God, if indeed we have asked for the mind of Christ, and if indeed we pray for these changes, these metamorphic conditions to take place, then we must allow them to take place as naturally as possible. 

 

Here is where discretion comes in. Here is where the mind of Christ has to really work, where the Spirit of Truth has to be operable in our lives. There is a great deal of potential danger in this day and age in this very thing, this very commandment — and I know your revelation talks in terms of many strange "isms' that arise as a result of garbled communications with our Thought Adjuster. 

 

Now I know that you didn't expect me to start out talking about this, and I know you've been wondering why, what does this have to do with the ideal of it. I mention it because it's a good time to be cautious. It's a good time to grow and evolve and go through your metamorphosis as naturally as you possibly can, praying always that the will of God be done. Now, taking the ideal, the work that you do, the groundwork that you lay, is acknowledging the presence of God in your life, in your mind, your Thought Adjuster, in your mind. 

 

The kingdom of heaven is within. This is where the inner creative life takes place. This is the beginning of it, right here at this acknowledgement that you are a child of God. Now what you're saying, then, is "God is my parent. God will raise me in his image. God will raise me and spew me out upon the shores the adult that he chooses me to be." There's where the metamorphic change takes place; there's where the wisdom comes in; there is where the spiritual maturity takes place. Each step of the way, slowly but surely, allowing God your father, God your mother, to mold you from the infant through the teenage years to adulthood, to adult maturity, spiritual maturity. 

 

If you were on a normal evolutionary planet at this time you would be close to fusion. At this time, if you were on a normal evolutionary world, the chances of your being able to fuse on this planet would be very great, but since you are not on a normal evolutionary world unless you were in an area where you would not do any damage, it would be awkward for you to fuse here, so you are going to be taken somewhere else to fuse. And this is the only thing that the act of death has anything to do with.

 

So to be born again, to be born of the spirit, is to take what I am, what I have, what I was, what I represent and all of my potential; everything that I was, everything that I am, and everything that I am to be, and reconstruct me. Give me new ears, ears to hear; give me new eyes, eyes to see; give me a new heart to love and to receive love and to give love; give me a new mind so that I do not crystallize, so that I do not have difficulty with my metamorphosis, so that I do not have difficulty in my understanding, in my growth, and in my relationship with my heavenly parents. 

 

It does me absolutely no good to go to my Father's school, or to go to my Father's business, or go to my Father's warehouse and not know what is going on there. The only way I can understand what is going on there is to seek for the information, to seek for guidance, to seek for knowledge. I ask. In some cases, such as this, you are fortunate because you are being given information almost unasked. There is a price to pay. There is a big price to pay. The price for which you are willing to give all that you have. 

 

Now what is this all that you have? Your prejudices, your bigotries, your ignorance, your egos, your bravura, your self-seeking, your grandiosity, your pride, your selfishness, your self-centeredness. All those things you can think of. Your sense of revenge. If you can give all of that, including your well-founded, well-thought-out, well-cherished conceits, intellectualizations, pride of mind, your concepts, all of these things, if you can give them all, give them all; your health, your dependencies, your compulsions, your neuroses, your anxieties, your fears, your emotional instabilities, all of them, all of them. You give them all willingly, joyfully, happily, for which you receive more than you ever bargained for. 

 

That is truly being reborn. You simply say, "I am your child. You are my parents. You raise me. You teach me to think. You teach me how to behave. You teach me values. You teach me ideals. You direct my feet on the correct path. You show me what you want me to learn. You take me to the libraries of your choosing, you take me to the fields of experience of your choice." 

 

It is your destiny. If you can just remember that each and every one of you, your Thought Adjusters came with a destiny for you, a pattern for you, a pattern for you totally unlike any other. I have to qualify that statement because of the "soul mates" here, this peculiar, unusual circumstance, but you understand what I am saying. It is absolutely unique. He came pre-destined. You are pre-destined if you will just (inaudible). 

 

There is no reason why, with the tools at your disposal, why you cannot get as close to fusion with your Thought Adjusters while you are still here on the planet Urantia before you go. Does that sound like a far-out goal? Does that sound like bribery? Spiritual bribery? Perhaps. It depends upon how you look at it.

 

Karen: Sounds like a prayer to me.

 

MESSENGER: What we have — what we have here is the opportunity to prepare for the next age. The next age on this planet is soon to be heralded in. We are doing everything we can to bridge the gap of communications and Jack has talked to you about

this. The doctor has talked to you about this. This is one way we can bridge this gap in the communication systems.

 

We do operate over the Archangels circuit. This is exactly how this operates. You have been told that and I will tell it to you in my manner. We are making preparations. We are doing everything we can with the permission of the Most Highs to get his planet.... All we have to do is just move it a little bit on its axis. 

 

Now, the other night my friend the doctor talked to these two young gentlemen about spiritual power. There is no real spiritual power unless you have been born again, born of the spirit, unless you give all that you have to receive more than you had. This spiritual power is the type of power that can literally change your environment. Your environment starts where?

 

Tom:  Here.

MESSENGER: Where is "here"?

Tom: In us.

 

MESSENGER: Exactly. In the individual first. When this occurs we are acknowledging the presence of healing. All compulsions disappear. All physical illnesses will disappear. We're talking about good physical health. We're talking about good mental health. We're talking about good emotional health. Psychic health. The healing starts within. The environment, the power, the spiritual power starts within. Now from here it

evolves where?

 

Tom:  Outside into our—

MESSENGER: Outside into our...?

Tom: Environment.

 

MESSENGER: Environment. Good student. Now where is our immediate

environment?

 

Karen: The arena.

MESSENGER: And where is the most immediate arena?

Karen: The home.

 

MESSENGER: Exactly. And those that around or in the home. That is the beginning of the socialization — the beginning of the brotherhood. That is the beginning of [inaudible]. As this power starts to evolve and as this power becomes stronger and

stronger, it now has enough power to go outside the home and go out into.. .?

 

Karen: Society.

MESSENGER: Society. And normally it goes first into where?

Tom:  Work.

Karen: Work.

 

MESSENGER: Our work. Of course. If you will take just a moment— and I know the doctor took Tom through this exercise the other night, so Karen — Tom, perhaps you can help her — if you can just put your antenna out right now, put it out into the immediate environment, feel, sense the environment, you should feel the power. You should feel the electricity, you should feel the currents and I'm speaking literally.

 

Karen: Yes.

 

MESSENGER: Once you get the feeling of that and you can feel it changing, you should feel the -- I know it's an overworked word — the vibration of it, you can sense it, then you have a frame of reference, and once you had this frame of reference you now have had a signpost from which you can always operate. You should be able to sense that power in every environment you move into. 

 

All of these things happen after — cause and effect — the effect from the cause causes the rebirth. Do you have any questions?

 

Tom:  Does this power radiate for long distances?

MESSENGER: Yes. Longer than you can measure.

Tom: Yeah?

Karen: It feels peaceful. It's not conducive to compulsions.

 

MESSENGER:It's not conducive to negativity. It's not conducive to illnesses.

 

Karen: Harmonious.

Tom:  Yeah, harmonious.

 

MESSENGER:Yes, this — it's the old business of two heads are better than one, three heads are better than two, and the added additive of power — the addition of power. Another reason why Christ sent them out two and two. Not only that, of course. As the revelation mentions, the philosopher Rodan talks about it. It's also a hedge against potential evil because two people can always, if they are sharing properly, can always counterbalance. Their sharing their knowledge will help error. Error is potential evil. Religious ego is error.

 

Karen: But I still don't know what to do about my car.

Tom:  Your what?

Karen: My car. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt with that blurp.

 

MESSENGER: Well, these are material considerations.

Karen: Indeed.

 

MESSENGER: As strange as it may sound, they're not to be sneered at. Again, the answer is a spiritual answer -- a reflective, meditative answer. Give the car to Jesus Christ. Maybe He will give you an ass in return.

 

Karen: That's fine.

Tom: That's a good idea.

 

MESSENGER: Are there any questions?

 

Tom: The main interferers in this — say, if you were reborn and you really did give everything you had, it would be an error to start taking it back. Once you start receiving more, it seems very easy to —

 

Karen: Presume upon Divine mercy.

Tom:  No, it's our egos get back involved again. Then you start putting it back upon yourself. I did this, I got this, I got this, so you're actually taking it back. Are you being reborn back into your old self?

 

MESSENGER: No, you're not being reborn back into your old self. You're just hanging on to some of the old crap. You simply have to remember. I think my friend the doctor would probably use such word as being "reconditioned" — the time for reconditioning that it takes, words like this. I don't deal in that kind of approach. That's not my bailey-wick. I don't do that, but I think these are the kinds of things he would talk about. Until such time as it is totally eradicated. Your friend the doctor talked about the mixed signals...?

 

Tom:  Uh-huh.

 

MESSENGER: Well, you see, you have the old and you have the new. Until it becomes all new, you're still going to have mixed signals — old signals, aren't you?

 

Tom:  Yeah.

 

MESSENGER: What happens is you get mixed signals because you've got dual signals coming up. What happens is as you become more and more and more and more, these become less and less and less and less. Diminishing. The only way you ever recognize that the old is pounding itself back into your consciousness is because you are looking with new eyes or you wouldn't see it. Do you understand that one?

 

Tom:  No.

Karen: Yes.

 

MESSENGER: This is why questioning is good. Why going through a certain amount of the crazies, or the conflicts that take place, because of this. Duality of signals is good because you don't — like our friend the doctor talked about, it's like death, or waking up on the Mansion Worlds. You do not wake up spiritually whole. You still have all that evolution yet to do. But you did wake up reborn on the Mansion World, right?

 

Tom:  Yep.

MESSENGER: That's what's important.

 

Tom:  That concept you just brought across about the diminishing old, is proportional to becoming the new, is that also the same concept as the diminishing of the Adjutant Mind Spirits, as the Spirit of Truth? Or as the spiritual growth increases, the mind—

 

MESSENGER: The closer you get, the-- Yes. The answer to your question is absolutely yes. The closer you come to uniting with your Thought Adjuster, the less the Adjutant Mind Spirits are an influence. Every time I have been made aware of the spiritual experiences that you — every time you have this spiritual experience as a result of a decision that you made and the Thought Adjuster is coming this say. The Thought Adjuster has taken on that experience with you. Therefore, the Thought Adjuster takes on that portion of the personality that made that decision, who had that experience. So to that extent, whatever that may amount to in time and space, you and your Thought Adjuster have united, you have fused. The more of those you have, they compound and compound and compound and compound, the more the Thought Adjuster is taking you on, the more you are becoming your Thought Adjuster, the more you fuse, the more you fuse, the more you fuse, the more you fuse....

 

Tom:  'Til suddenly: Pfsssst!

MESSENGER: Yes, until you are one.

Tom: In every single area.

 

MESSENGER: Yes. So as that occurs there are no longer those needs for the seven adjutant mind spirits. There's more—

 

Karen: More spirit and even less mind. We don't even need the wisdom that much.

 

MESSENGER: At that point. Because now you have taken on not only the cosmic mind, but God's mind.

 

Tom:  Then we can graduate.

MESSENGER: Then you start graduations

 

Tom: Do we get a diploma?

MESSENGER: You sure do. You can hang it on the wall.

 

Karen: Diploma of dismissal of the seven adjutant mind spirits when we become all-wise.

 

Tom:  Wonderful.

MESSENGER: You can carry it through the streets of Jerusalem on your ass.

Karen: Don't mind if I do.

 

Tom: Do we become Doctors of Divinity?

MESSENGER: Absolutely.

 

Karen: I surely do want to thank you for leading us in prayer.

MESSENGER: Yes.

 

Tom:  Where do you come from?

MESSENGER: I'm temporarily stationed on the planet.

 

Tom:  Do you use this energy -- the spiritual energy that we can sense here, is that a means of your transportation?

 

MESSENGER: It's a means of my transmittal. At first we had to up-step the channel and downstep our selves.

 

Karen: I'm concerned that the channel is going to be spent. , Is he all right?

 

MESSENGER: He is—

Karen: Taking in energy.

 

MESSENGER: He's taking in a lot of energy. This cannot operate and function the way it does without receiving special attention. He's being administered to in a way which you just have no conception of. It would be impossible for me to impart that knowledge to you at this point. Maybe Jack can tell you something about it; I don't know if he wants to get involved in all that, but maybe someday [inaudible]. 

 

Primarily, Tom, I operate on, in and through the planet [inaudible]. None of us can come on this planet without permission. We can't land on the landing field. This is a quarantined planet. This is like your getting into the YDC. You can't get through the gate without permission. I cannot, no matter what message I have, I cannot come through this channel without permission. This channel is highly controlled. It's also for all your protection. We are not going to experience insanities — mind disruptions. We won't have it; his Thought Adjuster won't allow it. His Thought Adjuster is very, very active. 

So it wouldn't matter.

 

I'm at the very moment being told the other night you asked if Jesus Christ could speak through this channel. Well, I can assure you Jesus Christ cannot speak through this channel without—

 

Karen: Irreparable damage!

MESSENGER: —without mutual consent of His Father.

Tom:  Whew.

 

MESSENGER: The Father of his Thought Adjuster. The power alone could blow the mind circuits of this channel.

 

Tom: Do you feel that we will ever get to the point — spiritually advance to the point that he could?

 

MESSENGER: It would depend upon the channel. I can't say that. I don't know—

Tom: Is it humanly possible?

 

MESSENGER: It is.

Tom:  Good. [Laughter] Something to work for.

 

MESSENGER: Just look at the record.

Tom: Just look at the record?

 

MESSENGER: Yes.

Karen: He was here in human form. Is that the record you make reference to?

MESSENGER: Yes.

 

Karen: Who's your boss? Besides Our Father? There is a hierarchy. Is there a society of messengers?

 

MESSENGER: Yes, of course. Because I'm stationed on this planet, temporarily, I work with the Melchizedek receivers and the 24 councilors.

 

Tom:  Can you — are you going to be visiting us more often? Or is this just a one-shot...?

 

MESSENGER:Well, I was in the vicinity and I was kind of looking in. My friend asked me if I would like to come through and I said, "Well, certainly, of course, I would love to." These opportunities are rare and they're always a fine experience —lesson for us.

[Inaudible dialog]

 

Karen: [Something about] personality.

 

MESSENGER: Personality is always recognizable throughout the universe unless you choose for annihilation. If you choose to turn your back on it, then your personality would be disintegrated. Otherwise personality is always recognizable — from here all the way to the shores of Paradise, in front of your Heavenly Father and beyond.

 

Karen: What do the 24 councilors think of this communications channel?

 

MESSENGER: I'm glad you asked the question. They're of the opinion that these things are all well and good providing … and it's like everything. There is a price to pay. [Pause] Provisio? [Pause] Well, I anticipated that you would say, "Well, what is the price? The price, since you didn't ask, the price is what you're going to do with it. So if there's any indication that this is going to be used for self-aggrandizement or for— selfishly and —-

 

Karen:  —isn't productively put to use

MESSENGER: — it will cease.

 

Karen: I understand that.

MESSENGER: Otherwise it's a toy.

 

Karen: I think I for one did not ask what the price is because it just reminds me, poignantly, of my responsibilities and I'm aware of my responsibilities, but--

 

MESSENGER: The burden is light.

Karen: I know. But intellectually, you know, it's an awesome responsibility.

 

MESSENGER: That's true as long as you have yourself in the way.

Karen: I know.

 

MESSENGER: It's the message that's important, not the messenger.

Karen: I understand, that.

MESSENGER: And it's true you can do two things at once.

 

Tom: Have we demonstrated any reason for having, causing damage to the channel — to cut it off?

 

MESSENGER: No, you certainly haven't. To date, not — no, rest assured. There are all kinds of guides and censors, built in measures, ways and such as that, that are constantly in operation when something like this is happening. As long as you continue

to make the decisions — demonstrate love in your life — acknowledge not just the presence of your Father, but in your fellowman — make every effort possible, no matter how — . 

 

You have no idea. You may think it's nothing. You make think it amounts to a pot of beans, but how can you stand in judgment? You have short-sighted eyes. You do not see futures like we do. You do not know how long it takes for the tree to grow to

a majestic tree, a fruit-bearing tree, because you may be long gone and all you did was plant the seed. So small and infinitesimal and you don't even know that you did it. That's the kind of service we're talking about. Those are the things. This is why we teach

like we do. 

 

The doctor talked with these gentlemen the other night. It becomes habitual. It becomes automatic with you. It becomes — did I or did I not? Was I or was I not? Yes, Alan

Today, -- I think Tom was^; telling you about how, at work, how it just came out of his mouth, he wasn't even aware of it, he was saying and he turned to the lady and he said, "But you do claim that sickness. Give it to Jesus Christ. In the name of Jesus Christ it is gone." And he said that it just happened, it just came out of his mouth. That's the kind of thing we're talking about. And he did it absolutely totally unabashedly because he had

no pre-plan, he had no aforethought, he had no -- he didn't stand in censorship of it. It just was, because it's become a part of him.

 

Karen: It was real.

 

MESSENGER: These are the kinds of things we're talking about. One time in our discussions the doctor talked about prejudices. You asked how do I get rid of them? It's the same old thing. When you get sick and tired of being sick and tired. When you get tired of mentally masterbating yourselves to death. When you get tired of the mental exhaustion and the emotional exhaustion, you let it happen and it becomes automatic and you are being reborn, deeper and deeper, more and more a budding new you. The new mind, the new heart, the new intellectual system. The old is gone. You don't need it anymore. It has stood in your way. It has prevented you from achievement. It has gotten you into more hang-ups and more problems and more difficulties and more—

 

Karen:  Delays.

 

MESSENGER: — than you can imagine. Now today, today, these gentlemen are following specific advice and instructions. They have not, to any of our knowledge, turned their back on one thing they were told to do. The more repetitious it becomes the more automatic it becomes, the more they do it. It's the same old story. The more they take it on, the more they come to be. The more they be, the more they are, the more it is being expressed, the more seeds are being planted unconsciously without even being aware that they are doing it. They are. Therefore, they are. Now that's why we have this investment here, with the three of you. Social architects take the best at their disposal and put it together and say, "Okay, now. What are the plans? Here it is. Here's the best we've got. We pray that it works." The social architects do it in the form of seraphim. Seraphic action. The seraphim do it.

 

Karen: There must be at least three?

 

MESSENGER: To make a group. When you're dealing with two, it's something else. An unusual set of circumstances. I think maybe for Karen's benefit maybe I should explain just a little bit about this situation here. The actual rebirth with these two people here is-- the actual real rebirth is very similar, very close in time. I know that may sound surprising but it's true. Therefore, chronologically there is no age difference. So they are two children, reborn children. 

 

In this particular case because of their Thought Adjusters having had prior experience, similar prior experiences, and these two people having similar personality characteristics, and then in addition to that since their rebirths are almost in the same time span, give or take as far as eternity is concerned, a flash of an eye difference, they have had similar spiritual experiences. They are soul mates and they're never going to experience from this point forward anything that the other one doesn't.

Karen: Well, that's pretty wonderful companionship.

MESSENGER:: It is a phenomenon.

Karen: Urn-hum.

 

MESSENGER: It is a phenomenon. It has caused a great deal of adjustment, social adjustments for the two of them. It has caused a great deal of difficulty.

 

Karen: Yeah.

 

MESSENGER: It has caused total upheavals in many, many, many areas not only between them and environmentally but also in their outer environments, which have had to go through a great deal of adjustments. But this is an unusual set of circumstances. But it was seraphic action. It was on the request of their TAs.

 

Karen: Um-hum. I'm delighted.

 

MESSENGER: But it does not make their lives easy. So, one of the things — it has forced, it has created a certain amount of impetus for them to grow spiritually and learn to deal with it. Any questions? Why don't we take a break?

 

Tom: Good idea.

Karen: Yes. Stretch and breathe.

Tom: Is Alan back? Oh, man....

 

[Recess]

 

Karen: Hi, Jack.

JACK: Did you enjoy your conversation with the Mighty Messenger?

 

Karen: Certainly did.

Tom: Sure did. Very interesting.

 

Karen: I'll be interested to read it now.

JACK: Do you have any questions you'd like to ask?

 

Tom: Is he still here?

JACK: He's in the vicinity, yes.

 

Tom:  Is there anything else he'd like to say to us, or did he make his— or is he finished? [Pause, checking]

 

MESSENGER: I'm back.

 

Karen: Hello.

Tom: Hi.

 

MESSENGER: I didn't have an opportunity to say good-night and to thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. I'd like to do that now. If you have any questions, please ask. I don't mean to take up a lot of time. Sometimes we don't measure quite the

same distances that you do, and I apologize for that because I know that you all have to get up and go to work tomorrow and I know that you have many other responsibilities to take care of.

 

Karen: Um-hum! That's all right. We don't get this opportunity very often.

 

MESSENGER: I would like to suggest to those of you who are tired and to those of you who have some physical difficulties in meeting and coping with the demands of your heavy schedules, that it be said now that you are being impregnated with the energy and the power and the healing grace to make all these things possible.

 

Karen: Thank you so much.

 

MESSENGER: You need not ever have any problem regarding your physical health, weariness, over-exertion, lack of sleep, lack of energy, because from this moment on, you will always have sufficient... providing you do not abuse it. With that, God bless you, thank you, I love you.

 

Tom Thank you.

Karen: Thank you.

 

MESSENGER: With any luck at all I might be back.

 

Karen: Good.

Tom: Great.

ALL: Good-bye. Good-night.

 

Tom: Wow.

Karen: I feel better already!

 

Tom: Jack?

JACK: Yes, I'm here.

 

Karen: You've got some wonderful friends, Jack.

JACK: Aren't they neat?

 

Karen: It's nice of you to introduce us to your friends.

Tom: Sooner than we expected. Or anticipated.

 

JACK: I thought you would enjoy them.

Karen: Yeah.

Tom: It was so peaceful.

 

Karen: Yeah. Very. Not intimidating at all. What a gift! All the energy we can put to good use.

 

Tom: As long as we don't abuse it.

Karen: Urn-hum.

 

Tom: When he said that does he mean keep going and pushing too hard and, you know, I've got this much energy so I guess I can go farther.

 

JACK: Yes, I'd say that. That you didn't start filling your stomach with a lot of junk, junk foods and you went back off your diets, started smoking, drinking again, and just being ignorant. You have to have at all times reasonable care.

 

Karen: Yes.

 

JACK: There are times, of course, when the demands are such that you may get very few hours sleep, but you don't have to worry about those things.

 

Tom: How do we take in this energy?

JACK: You have already taken it in. "Implanted."

 

Tom: Is it like a little battery that's been implanted and we got a charger out there?

 

Karen: The tree of life.

JACK: You got it.

 

Tom: Fantastic.

JACK: You got it.

 

Karen: Wonderful.

JACK: You got it.

 

Tom: That's going to help.

Karen: I think I'll pass that one on.

 

JACK: I suggest you keep it to yourselves.

Karen: Yeah? All right.

 

JACK: Urn-hum. It was a gift.

Karen: Indeed.

 

JACK: It was a gift so that you can continue to work.

Karen: Good.

 

JACK: It was a gift so that you can do the things that are required. And when it's time for someone else to receive the gift, someone else will come and give them the gift. Believe me. That's how that works.

 

Karen: All right.

JACK: This one's your own special...

Karen: Confidence.

Tom: Guess that proves we're doing the right thing, huh?

JACK: Sure.

 

Karen: I'm almost reminded of when Jesus gave to the apostles the Ambassadorship of the Kingdom.

 

Tom: I just need the energy.

Karen: I know it. (Laughter)

Tom: I don't need to be an ambassador. Too bad for my ego.

Karen: I understand; it's hard to live with.

 

JACK: Well, Karen, I understand you're having problems with your car.

 

Karen: Well, no, actually I don't. It's just that I share the car and it brings about certain social situations, one is my instinct to take care of my own God-damned car and have the independence of having my own car. And I don't know where this attitude comes from except that I feel that it doesn't behoove me to allow my friend, who uses my car, to use my car indefinitely. It doesn't make sense to me. Although I'm completely aware of all the mechanical ramifications of the situation we're in, and every one of them is fair and well justified and honorable and fraternal and companionable and sharing, some seven-headed monster rises up and says, "I want my car!" and I'm quite torn, philosophically, about how to deal with it. 

 

As the Mighty Messenger said, give the car to Jesus. I have given the car to Jesus; every once in a while, though, I say to myself, "Wait a minute. Am I being taken advantage of here?" and it's a situation I've encountered before and I'm just not quite sure in any of those given situations, how to deal with it. It is a case of, I'm moving somewhere, and I don't want it to be a selfish move, I want it to be a wise move, whatever that may be.

 

JACK: Well, I don't have anything really to add to it, you know. The only thing that I can say is that look to your Master. If that's too esoteric, Tom can help you. Now that's not necessarily in terms of an automobile, but in terms of the essence or the moral of your story, he's been through it. Ask him how he worked it out. He's been through it, so perhaps he can help.

 

Karen: Share it with me.

JACK: In that way you can help each other.

Karen: I will ask him.

 

Tom: You mean in the situation where when I didn't have a car?

Karen I guess all of them.

 

Tom: I don't know what experience, what you.... There's been a lot of them. A lot of things I've gone through. What are you referring to?

 

JACK: Think about it. Well, we've all had experiences where we've all been on the receiving end or on the giving end where we felt we were either taking too much or giving too much and not getting the proper balance in return and those of us who have been through those experiences could probably help share their experience with you, so that's what I'm making reference to.

 

Karen: It involves such things as, the second mile, it really does. These are values, and they have meaning. They're not just about a damned car.

 

JACK: That is correct.

 

[Abrupt end of tape]

 

*****

 

DATE:  July 27, 1983 (estimated)

LOCATION:  Albuquerque, NM USA

T/R:  Alan

TEACHER: JACK and DOC

TOPIC: First Mansion World Problems

 

Tom: Fine.

 

Karen: Very good. I have to go back to work on Monday. After a three week vacation.

 

DOC: It'll be good for you.

Karen: Yeah. Responsibility. Social contact.

 

DOC: I understand you wanted to ask some questions about my experience on the first mansion world.

 

Karen: Yeah, I would like some insight there. I think, as I mentioned before, I'm a little obsessed with this book I'm finishing up and I think that this book has a lot to do with the things that will be worked out on the first mansion world. It has to do with "aberrated sexual drives," paucity in the home life, the rearing of children, experiencing of parenthood, these kinds of things. My understanding is that we'll go to the first mansion world to fix that.

 

DOC: Yes, primarily those things are worked out on the first mansion world.

 

Karen: Well, I don't know how to ask, but would you talk a little bit about your experiences on the first mansion world. I'm sure I'll go there. I suspect most of my friends will go there.

 

DOC: I gather, since you have been writing a book on sexual aberrations, as you call it, I suspect that's what you'd like me to talk about.

 

Karen: Yes.

DOC: Well, ask some questions. I could talk for hours and....

 

Karen: I suppose. Well, let's try to limit it a little bit. I am specifically addressing the subject in this book about homosexuality. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Our society doesn't exactly approve of it, but my feeling is that the ideal relationship between two people or three people or any number of people is founded on love for one another in the highest sense whatever the highest sense may be at that given time, or at that moment. Now here, in the realm of homosexuality, that's aberrated. Somebody would call it aberrated. 

 

I don't think it's aberrated if it's having to do with love. It does hail from our Father. The concern you have for a person, even if they're of the same sex, doesn't take away from the value of the relationship. I know this. I feel this and I believe this, but still, since we who are females will be females throughout eternity and we who are males will be males throughout eternity, it throws me into a bit of a dither there. 

 

What happens on the first mansion world when this thing allegedly gets straightened out? What happens to...? Is it an issue?

 

DOC: What happens to the evolving personality? Is this what you're asking?

Karen: Yeah.

 

DOC: They go to the satellite spheres where the material sons and daughters are and they spend their time with the material sons and daughters until such time as these things are satisfactorily worked out. Now who's the judge and who's going to determine the word 'satisfactorily' is not for either me nor you to make the determination, but the key to it is 'satisfactorily'. Now the thing is Jesus himself wouldn't and couldn't and won't stand in judgment of Lucifer. He has others who will do that so nobody can stand in judgment of these things, not even on the first mansion world. Not even in the homes of the Adams.

 

Karen: Well, let me ask this. The other night we were talking with the -- Mighty Messenger was it?

 

DOC: Yes.

Karen: Who had a 'matey' who was working on the planet also. It may have been you. But he had a mate. Now, our conception of 'matey' or of the mating process here on Urantia, culturally and generally, has been the male with the female. Is it, or does it exist in the universe where there are two — and I'll switch over here — two passive types in conjunction with each other as well as two aggressive types. That is to say, are there partnerships of the male personality going on into eternity or ultimately do we end up with a passive and an aggressive, a male and a female, in the eternal career.

 

DOC: Not necessarily. Let's back up here for a minute. The Mighty Messenger did not talk in terms of a mate, so be very careful of your terminology here. He spoke of someone with whom he was working.

 

Again, we're dealing with the English language; we're working with words that you give me to deal with. Let's go back to the beginning: male and female, passive, retiring, aggressive, however you want to look at it, in terms of the evolving mortal, are

created and functional primarily for the purpose of procreation. The evolving of the races. If this didn't happen, the planet would end up being non-evolving because it takes people to evolve any planet. That goes all the way to God and the Thought Adjusters. So if we weren't evolving it would be a dead planet.

 

Now, you have read in the UB where it talks in terms of complimentary. There's one thing you're overlooking. That is that in all energy systems, there is always a duality. Again, it goes back to 'satisfactory resolution' -- satisfactory working out. The whole issue is being able to unite two energies together that compliment each other. Now take a moment and look at your seraphim. Very carefully, now, look at your seraphim. Your seraphim are designated 'she' and yet there are two, whenever you come into the third psychic circle, each one of you have two. One is always on duty, the other is in a passive state, and they are both designated as she. Right?

 

Karen: I've never heard it as 'him'.

 

DOC: You've never heard her referred to as anything but she, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Karen: No.

 

DOC: Now they are complimentary or they could not both work together on the same issue. Correct?

 

Karen: Correct.

DOC: Does that help?

Karen: Yes it does.

 

DOC: And do they or do they not, interestingly enough, if you find it worth your while, do they not continue to evolve with you?

 

Karen: They certainly do.

 

DOC: So if you as recognizable as a female entity then would be evolving with two female seraphim, wouldn't you? So there's a whole bunch of females right there.

 

Karen: Yes, indeed.

Tom: (Laughter)

Karen: Yes. I'm in good company.

DOC: Tim, do you have any questions about this?

Tom: Not right off the top.

 

DOC: All right. There are several keys you have to look at. The issue in all of the early phase of early evolution is learning to work together. Now, the UB says that men must learn to raise children and must be as responsible in raising children as women. Now the society that I'm visiting today, this is not so, except in isolated cases. It's still a type of society where women is supposed to raise the children. Well, this is not complimentary, is it?

 

Karen: No.

DOC: It's imbalanced, so it's just as imbalanced as your initial question.

Karen: Good analogy.

 

DOC: So putting these things in balance where they become complimentary is the key to the whole thing. To the whole evolutionary plan. Okay, so looking at this business of Tom and Alan as soul mates and they have made the decision that they would like to evolve spiritually through the rest of their sojourn together. This is very possible because as long as they are complimentary, the resolution is one that is satisfactory. Now I do not make that value judgment; you do not make that value judgment. Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

Karen: Yes.

Tom: Well who makes it?

 

DOC: For instance if let's say a — this is going to sound very gross. Let's say a sex change comes up to first mansion world. Personally I have known very few who have made it, let's say a sex change who has actually gone through the operation, the physical transfor­mation with — and certain psychic, mindal changes have taken place also because of the implantation of hormones and different things. This is an aberration. This.... working out a satis­factory solution to that is quite a problem. A lot of work. Now, could you find a satisfactory way to resolve that?

 

Karen: My inclination would be to—

 

DOC: Could you? In all honesty? Put yourselves in the position of making that decision?

 

Tom: Not I.

DOC: Thank you. A little humility goes a long way. Very good. Not even the particular Adam and Eve in whose home this poor, deprived person would go to, could make this decision. They do the work. Like I do. As a Morontia Companion, I do work; I offer my services, my companionship and all these things. I'm a guide, a teacher, but judgments of this sort are out of my hands. So, that's just to give you some idea.

 

Karen: The impact of man and woman is primarily for, and it's overtly presented, for propagation of the human race.

 

DOC: Exactly.

Karen: And consistency and continuation of evolution.

 

DOC: And civilization, because it immediately involves the maintenance of that evolution which would lend itself to property and there cannot be any kind of solidified society without the maintenance of property.

 

Karen: Right.

 

DOC: So it's a fundamental, basic kind of thing. But his is also done between members of the same sex. Successfully. If this were not so we would be clamoring and putting pressure on the revelatory commission to strike all those paragraphs right out of Rodan of Alexandria because we would consider it misleading. But of course that would never happen. Do you understand, Tom?

 

Tom: You lost me about three minutes ago.

DOC: Ask questions.

 

Tom: You were talking about property? Why must there be...?

 

DOC: You have to maintain yourselves, right? You maintain yourselves better, more productively, when you have someone that you care for.

 

Tom: Yes.

 

DOC: When you have a situation other than singular; when you have goals established and things you can work for. Property, the maintenance of property, includes such things as institutions, the creations and maintaining of your institutions, which are the bulwark and the doors which society uses, goes in and out of, to learn by and to evolve. So it all gets down to the business-- back in the old days I could take what was yours and you could take what was mine and we could resolve that by killing each other off. And to the victor go the spoils. What were the spoils? A hut? A woman and a baby, maybe. Lion's teeth. An ass. But then when things evolved to an agricultural society, then it became grazing land, water rights, cattle, sheep, and that was how society evolved so the ownership of grazing land, the ownership of cattle, numbers of cattle was an indication of wealth and it immediately became an institution that did that. And it had to be maintained. And as a result society progressed. Mankind progressed. Understand?

 

Tom: Hmm.

DOC: So that's what we mean when we say property.

Karen: Culture.

 

DOC: Well, pottery-making, weaving, story-telling are all the early stages of culture which eventuated in the printed word, the printed page, and the UB is a result of that. And your communicators, your telecommunications, all of these things are progressive! All of which would never have occurred if there hadn't been a maintenance thing.

 

Now I'd like to say one more thing before we get off this subject. We were speaking rather philosophically about all this. There — now, we have to look at the mores. I believe people are saying in your society, are they not, AIDS is God's disease to get rid of the homosexuals? But, look at it for just a moment. What the people are saying, whether they realize it or not, as I understand it, is: we can't stand any more promiscuity. We're not criticizing the fact that two members of the same sex are together; what we don't like is the promiscuity; the rank savagery that's involved.

 

Statistically they have discovered that the majority of the cases of AIDS are people who have had oh, perhaps, something like 100 liaison contacts within a month. Rank savagery. So it's -- in a way, their protest has merit.

 

Karen: I... You're being philosophic now, Doc. I will give some credence to it, yes, but frankly I don't feel that people who are out there with banners that say "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" "Sodomy is sin" — I think they're missing the whole boat and I don't think they're concerning themselves with the frequency of any individual's sex life. The fact--

 

DOC: I specifically brought up the subject of AIDS as an example and said that people have some understanding here because of promiscuity. Now I'm not going to take on the issue of pros and cons of peoples' attitudes concerning picketing and so forth. My point was promiscuity. And rank savagery. So this is why the mores, why people have negative attitudes in today's society about a lot of these issues. Their attitudes would be completely different about these things if let's say two women who were having an affair together of maintaining property in the same manner as their next door neighbors who have been married for 20 years and who are raising a family. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

 

Karen: Yes, I do. They want civilized behavior. Whatever you do in the privacy of your bedroom is okay, but let's have civilized behavior on the street.

 

DOC: And you don't always have to be in a baseball uniform in the front yard.

 

Karen: Right. Our society is not too keen on two people of the same sex rearing children.

 

DOC: Again, it's a reflection on the promiscuity. On the lack of disciplines. You see it takes discipline for a man and a woman to prevent divorce long enough to raise a family. Well if it's hard enough for a man and woman, then it's hard enough for two people of the same sex to do that. Especially in the complex society of today. But none of this has to do with the satisfactory resolution of the problem when we come to the mansion worlds except in terms of looseness, promiscuity, savagery. Savage behavior is not conducive to spiritual growth.

 

Karen: Very good, Doc.

DOC: Any questions? Did anybody learn anything?

Karen: I've been rather reinforced. With what I've thought.

 

DOC: As long as you want to go, you'll go. It's.just like—well, it'll all fall into place.

 

Karen: I want to go.

DOC: Any questions?

 

Tom: Not at all.

Karen: Could we take a short break?

DOC: Yeah.

 

[Break]

 

Karen: Trust. I trust my Father in heaven explicitly at least I like to think I do. Many of the things I go through I trust that he knows what's going on and will pull me through that I'll learn something from him, but I sometimes have trouble trusting my fellows and what bothers me even more is that I see so much mistrust and suspicion in my peers. Of course if we were to trust our Father more, we might trust our fellows more.

 

JACK: Well it would be very difficult for me to talk about that in a blanket — I can address the subject as far as you personally are concerned.

 

[Abrupt End of Transcript]

 

*****

 

DATE:  July 29, 1983 (estimated)

LOCATION: Albuquerque, NM, USA

T/R:  Alan

TEACHERS: JACK and "DOC"

TOPIC: First Mansion World

 

Karen: ….. what the prognosis is.

Tom: I feel this is a subject for Doc. I don't know if—

 

JACK: I'll tackle it.

Tom: Okay. Great.

 

JACK: Well, the status? Pitiful. Prognosis? Slow.

 

The State of New Mexico, the general New Mexico area is still suffering under two major burdens. One, the Catholic church; and Two, distance. Included in that subject of wide, open distances is the spirit of independence; the spirit of frontiersman-ship, so it's difficult. Difficult to bring about anything cohesive. At this point you just have to go along with what you've got.

 

Karen: Well, good. It's nice to know we're not totally at fault. Those are things that we've observed. That I've observed. It's not really a society-oriented State. It is very independent.

 

JACK: I'm surprised - politically, being as independent as they are, that they vote Democratic as often as they do.

 

Karen: They're followers, because I think of the Catholic church. It's the same comfort in numbers. But to stand out and follow a revelation, going against those two aspects...

 

JACK: You have a lot of very, very independent spirits here. Independent souls. A lot of frontiersman-ship. This is the frontier. And people who live outside the metropolitan areas lead a rather rugged life, a very independent life and they are not followers, not joiners, and they're not concerned with your spiritual welfare.

 

Karen: They're not church-goers either, particularly.

 

JACK: They're not concerned with your spiritual welfare. So it's going to take time. If you maintain what you've got, with all its paucity—

 

Karen: I think we've got a pretty firm foothold with all the paucity and from my vantage point I see the prognosis isn't bad. It could be a lot worse.

 

JACK: I have a few suggestions. You might want to urge Chicago to politically keep you on Route 66. In other words, as a nice little way-station. If you develop a way-station attitude—

 

Karen: An outpost.

 

JACK: Exactly. Here's a good place to get the information for what happens in the West. Out here in the desert. This is a good oasis. Stop here for a night and make contact. That kind of a thing. If you could start that kind of thing you would have a lot more input from around the world. And it's going to take more than Edith to do that.

 

Karen: I would think so. Now, Virginia does act in that capacity quite a bit. She has a pretty active hostel up there [in Santa Fe].

 

JACK: Yes, you have to keep that kind of thing going so that you can— you know, this is the kind of thing that Jesus did. He went right down to the crossroad where the caravans came into town, right?

 

Karen: Yeah.

 

JACK: This is where the camels were being watered. This is where the donkeys were being unloaded. This is where the hay—the people were feeding their beasts of burden, wiping the dust from their brow and trying to get their supplies, clean up a little bit and he was there to talk to those people; he learned what was going on around the world that way. He learned about his fellowman. Now if you could help to get that kind of thing going here in Albuquerque for your fellow sojourners, your fellow Urantians, they're coming and going all the time.

 

Karen: It would open up a lot of avenues.

 

JACK: It's still Route 66, you know, and they're coming and going all the time and Albuquerque is a natural stop-over. It always has been and it always will be, but they've got to know about you. They've got to know that this is a place to stop.

 

Karen: That we're friendly.

 

JACK: Yes. And you can learn about people; you can learn more about them, about the movement, and this will stimulate your group. There was an inquiry, Alan received an inquiry that was sent from Washington for your newsletter called The Golden Age. This was the first newsletter you put out. You've since changed the name and that's all right. I bring this up to let you know that somebody from another state has suddenly become aware of the original newsletter and asked to be put on the mailing list. That's something to follow through with. Don't put these burdens on Ethyl; she's going to crack. Especially when she's carrying the burden of the saint.

 

Tom: What do we do? Just give them our name and addresses and say, if you're in the area stop by or call to meet some fellow Urantians?

 

JACK: Exactly. Do it in your next newsletter. Be sure this newsletter gets mailed out to key people in key states. You've got access to all of those names in all of those areas and be sure that Chicago gets your newsletter, and send it also to the groups listed in those original groups, those people, those groups, those cities that turned in their names. You've got the money in the bank. Pay for the extra postage and the extra copies and send them, and make it the theme of the next newsletter exactly this. And there's your public outreach. Let them know, on your next visit stop into Albuquerque, as you suggested Tom. That these people here would be happy to pick you up at the airport

or at the train station or the bus station or at the camel dump. And you know, we have a bed, we have a couch, we have a pull-down we have a sleeping bag.

 

Karen: We're right across the street from a motel.

JACK: Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Karen: Sure do. Sure do. Very good ideas.

Tom: It's brotherly.

 

Karen: And we haven't talked about the newsletter in a long time either, so it was nice of Jack to remind us.

 

JACK: A responsibility. You have a perfect avenue to make outreach with your fellow sojourners, your fellow man. Just because someone has found the Urantia Book doesn't mean they have found Nirvana, that they have resolved their personal problems. They may be going through an intellectual struggle just digesting the verbiage, the words, the sentence structure or the paragraph structure in the Urantia Book. But you know all of that is well and good, all of that will be taken care of in time; what these people need is the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. 2,000 pages later, when all is said and done.

 

Karen: We are a little slow here.

JACK: Well I'm glad you're positive about my suggestion here.

Tom: An excellent suggestion.

JACK: In case Tom doesn't know, the monies that were sent in for the Golden Age...

 

Tom: Yeah, I know.

 

JACK: So your local Urantia group has a lot of money in the bank. Over $100. Not $200.

 

Karen: Do you have a suggestion as to our next theme in addition to this outpost, coming and going, we want to be friendly?

 

JACK: You might want to include brotherhood.

Tom: Stop by and see us.

 

JACK: People, a lot of people, still think that New Mexico is South of the border, who don't understand — you may find that hard to believe especially people who read the UB, now there is a state called New Mexico and there are actual people living there besides the Indians and Mexicans, so when they think in terms of this area they really think of Indians, Indian blankets, peace pipes and turquoise jewelry. 

 

It still has a wonderment and fascination to it and it overwhelms them a little bit; to a certain extent they're threatened by it and they, too, have built a certain thought in their minds as to what you would be like so let them know you're friendly. Send it out to them, to all of them, that you welcome them, that you eagerly welcome them when they pass through. Why don't you work on that one. (Reference to Colorado Urantians.) You as Urantians are not viable (to Colorado). There's your big problem. You can be as controversial as you wish to be. You aren't viable.

 

Tom: What do you mean? Accessible? Or...?

 

JACK: You're the ones who are going to have to make the effort to let 48 mainland states know that you are part of the United States. We're alive and well in Albuquerque.

 

Tom: We have a saint. We have a prophet.

 

JACK: Any questions? Target date should be established. (Discussion on "Your Harvest Issue.")

 

Tom: Is there a visitor?

JACK: Doc is here.

Karen: Which Doc is that?

 

DOC: How are you this evening, Karen? Tom?

Karen:  Pretty good, thanks.

Tom: Great.

 

DOC: I'm happy to hear that. Do you have any questions?

Tom: Karen?

 

Karen: I wish I did. I heard you guys have had lots and lots and lots of dialog and insights. I'm not necessarily interested in having my brain picked but I always enjoyed things that have to do with psychiatry and psychology and the mind and the aberrations of the mind, genesis of the mind, but I don't have any prepared questions.

 

DOC: Well, primarily we've been discussing, in AA vernacular, character defects. I don't particularly like that term, but we've been discussing the origins and manifestations of selfishness and self-centeredness and how it — from my choice of presentation — they're a rather root to all the other problems; the rather root excuse of lust, abject selfishness. But when I discuss these things I don't discuss them in terms of clinical aberrations. I like to discuss them in terms of generalities. I'm not dealing with clinically disturbed people. If I were it would be impossible to do it in this kind of environment, through this channel, so we're not dealing with that. We are dealing with some very subtle manifestations with the humanoid.

 

Sometimes society's subtle manifestations can be very destructive. But generally that's what we've been discussing. It's a big bag.

 

Karen: Lust? Selfishness? Self-centeredness?

 

DOC: The conflicts they create. I make the comment that lust has probably killed almost as many people as religion has. It's been the root cause of many wars and fights as religion.

 

Karen: And the Urantia Book does mention that the sex urge uncurtailed can cause fierce havoc and damage and it lays on very thick overtones as to what can come about as a result of that. But I appreciate also what you're saying about religion as well, how when the church is crammed down your throat, when dogma has aberrated your thinking. That is dangerous to the spirit as well.

 

DOC: Any questions, please? Well let me ask a few questions. In terms of human relations, how do we feel tonight? Karen, how do you feel in terms of human relations tonight?

 

Karen: Well I feel, on the whole, very good about my relationships with everybody. I'm not having any problem with anybody unless it might be with my sister. And she might be having a problem of her own and not feeling much at peace with herself so that might have something to do with it. She's a very difficult girl to get along with. So all my local relationships I find in good standing. And of course I'm on holiday so a lot of my relationships are temporarily curtailed, a nice respite. I'm very pleased, actually, with the way the universe is presenting personalities to me and the way we're getting along.

 

DOC: Do you feel that you're growing in insight?

 

Karen: Yes, I feel that I am because I don't feel nagged. I don't feel complacent. I'm not having any of those conflicts that I'm prone to have when I'm not growing so I know I'm growing. Now whether I'm growing specifically in insight I don't know. I haven't thought about that. I would imagine a person is going to grow in insight if they experience new experiences even with the same people. Learning to love somebody involves insight into who they are and where their values are, their interests, their needs. I suppose I am growing in insight.

 

DOC: Tom?

 

Tom: I feel that I am growing in insight in myself and through that I can understand other people because I'm learning to deal with my prejudices and I see why I have a specific thing against this type of people or group or certain area....

 

DOC: The "beaners?"

 

Tom: Yeah. The "beaners." Women. Things like that. But I'm learning a lot. Especially in the area of women. I think I'm growing in that area. I'm coming out of my infancy in that area because my thing about women is based on prejudice and probably resentment, shit like that. I still have a lot of work to do but I 'm at peace. I'm peaceful inside around people. I don't show any phonyness or I try to appear as real as possible as what I am and I really like that. I like who I am and because of that I like them. I guess I'm starting to cut the act. I'm trying.

 

DOC: We discussed one time that perhaps the best possible way to deal with certain conflicts is not a matter of ignoring those conflicts but by being able to — the AA principle of helping another person is not exclusive to AA or new to AA — it's the very foundation of Jesus' life, that he demonstrated, and that is to be of service and many times just the act of being of service (the ultimate of service, of course, is doing God's will) automatically takes care of the conflicts or whatever paucity may be stirring at the surface level of awareness, causing the problem — lack of self-esteem, things like that. So sometimes just going about your daily life and making every effort possible to maintain your sense of service ministry and to do God's will just takes care of all this. We talked also about the necessity of restructuring through behavior modification, discipline the sub-conscious mind. This is another way of controlling your immediate environment, your immediate environment is... Karen?

 

Karen: Your home.

DOC: No. Your ....

Karen: Oh. Your relationship with your Thought Adjuster.

 

DOC: Your body. Your immediate environment is your body. The next most important extenuation of that is whatever physical environment you might be in. Now this is accomplished through — we discussed this at great length, so this is a bit of a review for Tim and Alan — but we discussed at great length how you cannot allow your subconscious mind to reason, to control your life. This is where (because it lacks reason) it throws people into mental and emotional chaos and all these things, because emotions being a sensation, a feeling, the sense of feeling are controlled by the subconscious mind.  All these things are under the general area of automatic response, mechanisms, these things. So I have suggested that a good way to start would be something Alan had talked about a long time ago and that was when he clued off and he said, well, what I'm going to do is tell my subconscious mind:

 

"I'm going to go to sleep. You may play all you want all night long but when we get up in the morning I'm going to be in charge. You've had your fun. You're going to come back out of the sandbox and you're going to do what you're told to do and we're going to go on about our day."

 

And we worked with this for awhile and then Tom said, "I'm not even going to allow my subconscious mind that time. Because if it's true that if the Thought Adjuster works on our mind while we are asleep, or our seraphim minister to us while we're at rest, while we're sleeping, that the Thought Adjuster, if he's self-acting, can leave at that time of rest, then it's not well to have the subconscious mind ————." (End of side of tape)

 

[End of "The Jack Era" Transcripts]